I think not all the Cybernatic implants should have to cost 1 "cybernetic slot".
A single Arm should cost 0.5 cybernetic slots (well, from the ruels I would say this is already implied, since 2 arms cost 1 slot), but above all Prosthetic Replacements should cost NO cybernetic slots (they give you no bonus and are subject to Ion damage).
How about any number of arms costs one slot? That is what my group is going to do, since the second arm dosent actually give you a bonus.
We were also going to do that any number of replacement implants costs 1 slot total. I agree that they dont really have an in-game use, but it is just a flavor thing.
I have been thinking about it tho, and may suggest that there is no brawn limit on cybs. I think it only partially makes sense that because my twi'lek is small I cant get rebuilt as much as a wookie. I realize that brawn is a combination of strength and stamina, and it is the stamina aspect that brings in the limit, but I dont think it is a good limit.
It should be the GM who sets the limit on how much cybernetics a player gets, not the rule set. If I have a player who wants to end up making Vader's rebuild look minimal, that should not be disallowed by the rules. Or be only possible if he maxes out his brawn.
Vader is a point in question
and there are 2 questions to ask - what is a prosthetic and what is a cyber replacement ? - sometimes the lines are a little blurred - especially when you consider he has
beyond that the armor - is just armor
Then the second question - how do they affect use of the Force?
what of Ben's quote "He is more machine now than man, twisted and evil". Will this have an affect in game mechanics
will the more cyber points you have reduce your force level?
will it instead affect what you roll on the force dice turning a minimum number of dots equal to your cyber points black?
People discuss…….
Sennagarrhm said:
what of Ben's quote "He is more machine now than man, twisted and evil". Will this have an affect in game mechanics
will the more cyber points you have reduce your force level?
will it instead affect what you roll on the force dice turning a minimum number of dots equal to your cyber points black?
People discuss…….
I don't actually think having cybernetics should impact someone's ability to use the Force at all. I know it's been a long-standing trope for Star Wars RPGs, but bear with me.
Keeping in mind the *very* small number of Force powers we see in the original trilogy, it's tough to say definitively that Vader had become weaker in the Force. He certainly seemed just as capable with Force Choke. He also wasn't the focus of attention in the original trilogy, so we don't get much opportunity to *see* him using the Force.
The differences in lightsaber combat are completely covered by the vision-switch from broadsword to small sword styles between the original trilogy and the prequels. And he was obviously more than a match for Obi-Wan still. (Yes, Obi-Wan let himself be killed, but it'd be tough to argue that he could have disengaged from Vader and escaped even if he was willing to allow the rest of the group to be killed in the process.)
Given the current rules for using Force Powers, *any* reduction for having cybernetics would pretty much mean dumping any use of the Force as soon as you lose a limb. Luke's hand didn't seem to hurt his ability to use the Force in Jedi.
Obi-Wan's "More machine than man" comment can just as easily be read as Vader having lost his humanity to his hatred, so now he's just a tool of the Emperor. After all, we now know that old Ben was fond of 'colorful' interpretations of events. ("Vader betrayed and murdered your father," "from a certain point of view".) Besides that, we also know that, in the end, Obi-Wan's assessment of Vader was *wrong*. He redeemed himself, turning on the Emperor even though the act killed him (and he couldn't have thought otherwise at the time).
I definitely don't want to see cybernetics subtracting from a character's Force Rating. Period. SAGA Ed had a miniscule penalty was nearly negligible, -1/cybernetic, capped at -5.
I wouldn't be completely opposed to switching 1 Lightside point to Darkside, or maybe paying Strain more often.
In regards to a pair of arms… I will only make my players pay a slot for the first arm in a pair, or legs. I mean, maybe they should only be able to have so many spare arms/legs, and eventually they have to hobble around with 2 metal arms, a metal leg, and a stub, but I don't think the players would dig that notion. Play as you will, though.
As for drawbacks from cybernetics and the force -> add a setback die (or upgrade difficulty once) per replacement, or per 2 replacements, for any checks involved using the force: i.e. discipline (or vigilance). It would also - as far as I've come to understand - limit you from using certain powers, most prominently force lightning, which apparently Vader never could do, due to his cybernetic arms (at least I've read that somewhere - not saying its canon).
If one really wants it to apply to force rating (and I don't), I'd say decrease force rating - under certain circumstances perhaps to do with physical manifestations of the force and the like, perhaps sense too? - by 1 per 3 or 4 replacements. So If Vader could be considered to have a force rating of 6 or 7 (or whatever) before being burned, his effective force rating - under certain circumstances - is now 5 or whatever. It also depends on what "counts" as a force debilitating cybernetic replacement. I'd be sceptical to say that one eye, a hand or finger, the foot, or something like that alone would count in this way. The replacement of an arm or two, and legs, heart and the like, would on the other hand.
I will say that I do agree more with the sentiment about loosing humanity due to being a machine (and in Vader's case being a pawn of the Emperor) when it comes to too many cybernetic appendages and organs. What sort of drawbacks this could cause I think should simply be roleplayed rather than forced onto the players - but that's me.
I think the limit of cybernetic replacements and the separate cost for each arm fits and balances well. Once you reach that limit, I'd say that if you really had to or wanted to add more, you'd take penalties in some way, when interacting with other organic sentients - setback dice or upgrades to difficulty not possible to be ignored by talents that normally would ignore x amount of setback dice per x rank in a talent. These penalties would be applied to negotiate and charm at least, perhaps also deceive, but could serve as boost dice on coerce.
Just some thoughts, not something I'd use mechanically really - I mean, in one situation having lots of cybernetics could be a good thing, like when coercing or trying to charm someone through self-pity… in other situations it wouldn't be a good thing. Therefore the use of setback dice should be organic I think, not something set in stone.