Donovan Morningfire said:

It IS the same movement and relative positioning system to WFRP3 .

The standups that came with WFRP3 were no more "required" than they would be in Edge of the Empire. Do it in your head, do it on a map, whatever helps you weave a cool combat. The point is, the system doesn't FORCE you to use a map, nor does it DENY you from using a map or minis. Make it as tactical or as free form as you want. THAT is the beauty of the system. You can run it however you want and the game doesn't assume that you are using minis and a standard metric measuring tape.

What is in a "tactical" map system? Movement thresholds? Terrain? Line of Sight? WFRP3, EotE and D&D have those. The only difference is that WFRP3 and EotE don't say " a Gand can move 5 meters per round, a 1meter cube counts as partial cover, and a human can throw a grapefruit X meters ."

In these games you can just look at a map…cogitate and grok what you are staring at and then go " yeah that looks like a Close range jog Pete, let's put your mini/pushpin/imaginary placeholder/marker dot over here. This guy is around the corner so you can't shoot him, but you could nail this dude crouched behind the crate over here if you want. Then there are the gang thugs swarming over here that you could get a clear shot at ." You can do it in your head, or if you have players that are easily confused you just…doodle or shift a mini.

But…in terms of the OP? I doubt there will be a mini/terrain line of products directly made for this RPG. We might see some other game with cool minis we could use. Or we can crowd source some paper minis, write "Luke S-walker" on a 1Inch length of wooden dowel with yellow yarn glued to one end

Callidon said:

EotE sure as hell isn't anything like the WFRP3 game that I tried when it came out, where the need for various fiddly bits and tactical placement tracking seemed a heavy requirement to play the game.

Donovan Morningfire said:

Which is why I qualified the same "movement and relative positioning system." The only difference is that WFRP included standups in-the-box. It doesn't change the fact that they are the same relative positioning systems, or that you can manage relative positioning as free-form or as minis-on-maps or any other method a group might come up with to track what range increment one combat participant is from another.

If you think I'm crazy then go to a game store and pick up the Player's Guide book for WFRP3 and read pages 66-68 and tell me that the range bands and positioning systems are wholly different.

Donovan Morningfire said:

That first part of the sentence, ending in "visual aid". +1 or like or whatever popular cultural term is used these days for agreeing and stuff. I always used maps or grids - actually we usually had a paper and just jotted down positions mostly… rarely using tokens to move around - as a guide to show players relative positions. With RCR I started using grids, but that bogged down combat (but so did RCR really, not only the grid map) and sometimes my living room table was not large enough for those hefty space battles or large melees. Although I like maps when they are needed, complex maps and terrain can sometimes make it necessary, especially with large groups of players and npcs. Either way, that it is not required to run fast and good combat is only, and I mean only a plus in my book. Having it as an option is good. And this system seems like it can support it as an option if need be.

Using a grid or just tokens (be they miniatures, erasers or dice) can be, and sometimes will be useful. Sometimes one could argue they are needed. Although I see nothing in this system that stops you from using grids or maps - even though there is a big focus on the word "abstract" in this thread. You only have to figure out how many squares is within one range band (we already have an approximation of the distance in meters within a range band)… lets say the squares around the characters is the "engaged" band, next square (2nd) and the next 5 - so 7th - (or whatever I'm just picking random numbers) is close range. From 8 to 20 is medium range, and 21 to 40 is long, 41+ is extreme… in my experience I rarely had maps that big though… of course with this abstraction of combat, the squares can vary, depending on the size of the battle field, thus when having large battles, squares can denote more or less range. So close range an be the 2nd and 3rd square, medium 4th and 7th, so on and however you feel fits the battle.

I mean, when combat rounds have a duration not set in 6-second-stone, but varies from 30 seconds to a minute (from what I remember), stuff is likely to get a different feel and I guess more fluid, rather than strict and chess like - something 3rd edition dnd and 4th edition (plus Saga) most definitely made combat into… chess with options to break the rules (ie feats or talents). Its messy and made combat take up too much time and resources.

Rassilon said:

That tabletop combat can enhance the experience, does not mean that it doesn't slow it down - you are not arguing that it doesn't slow down time, only that you like a certain aspect of tabletop combat gaming, that it enhances your experience; this has nothing to do with time as such. It does on the other hand mean that when combat becomes visualised like this - which does take more time usually: placing of miniatures, building of map and terrain, considering movement and making on-the-go strategy or taking time to look what is "the best move" - it can also make it more enjoyable, this is true - in fact that combat takes longer can enhance the experience - short combats are not necessarily more fun. It is also more chess like, a chess where one can break the rules due to special abilities (talents, feats and the like).

I prefer a game I can choose, and I feel that EotE gives me this option. If I want maps, I can make them and use a ruler (or one of those old WHFB or WH40K rulers) to measure range.. or counting squares if that is preferable.

On a seemingly TOTALLY unrelated note, a thread called "Supporting Accessories" seems like a good place to ask…

anyone know of a source for blank polyhedral dice, to slap those multitudinous stickers on? That was a fun inclusion.

IG-58 said:

I could only find them in white, but I really wanted coloured dice, so I just picked up plain coloured dice from Chessex - the numbers on the sides are covered up by the stickers anyway.

You can get blank polyhedral dice directly from Chessex.com:

http://www.chessex.com/Dice/Dice_Home.htm

Scroll down to the bottom of the page.

Hey, thanks! Just what we need. Saved the page.

Those stickers are really not fun to apply. I really do wish they would have made the Dice App more accessible across platforms or actually created proper dice.

Corradus said:

Well, seeing as how there's a Beginner Box slated for a Q4 release, I'd imagine dice won't be too far off from when that's released.

Seeing dice in stores soon would be great.

Dice notwithstanding, there are a few other supporting accessories I'd love to see:

Must have number one - a book full of new player races. (including some specializations for some races)

Must have number two - a big book full of vehicles and gear. this would be chock full of new customizations, new ships, rules for generating random cargo for those who want to be legitimate business men/women/sapients

Lots of adventures.

Stuff I dream of:

Galactic campaign cartographer - A packet that has rules for creating adventures, generating random planets, encounters, with a splash of a campaign diary - so a notepad, and ideas on how to be a better gm, such as what to look out for, how to record good campaign notes. This packet would also be a good place for a GM screen.

Miniatures - Done via The Character Creator. What is the Character Creator? Well, it's an idea I had which incorporates the collectible/random aspect of some miniature lines, with the need to have the perfect miniature for your character (which I always seem to want) Now, I know that miniatures aren't necessary for this game, but my idea could be fun. You start by having a larger mini, 35-40mm perhaps. But, the basic figure a body male or female, or certain race specific like wookie, most likely in an action pose. Where the collectible part comes in is that you buy a pack of random pieces (think lego men) so you might get a couple of heads, rodian, gand, human, etc. And you mix and match these pieces to create a miniature tailored to you.

Now this alone wouldn't be beneficial for the line, so the miniatures need to have something else for the game. Now, I don't want to see miniatures become a focus for combat, but a way to express your character but they need something mechanical. So, why not have the bases be similar to those on heroclix? Rather than health or whatnot, why not have spinner that shows what ranged band you are in relation to enemies? Some people want a way to track the range bands, and some want minis, so why not have a way to combine both in an optional product. This could eliminate some of the fiddly bits some are afraid of from WHFRP3e, and provide a nice collection of tchotchkes for those people who have too much shelf space.

Also, some set enemies packs could be done. A squad of stormies, or a bunch of Hutt thugs, etc. Now if this was tied into a combat game of sorts, well, that could work too.

I would also like to see books that have a information on an area of space, and it's local inhabitants. Take for the example the Hapes Consortium.

Here's a book that would have rules for playing a Hapan, their culture, maybe a specialization for an existing class, their personal weapons and ship technologies for use in the game. Also, an introductory adventure on how to incorporate this into a game would be great.

Another one could be the Chiss Ascendancy.

Maybe even the Trade Federation, banking clan, or other groups that are separate from the empire.

Considering the game system doesn't have absolute ranges (you are never X squares from an enemy, the ranges are extremely abstract), I'd never expect floorplans or tiles. There is not 'movement' stat for PCs (in Saga, the default is 6 squares for a move action)

This approach doesn't really exist from what I've read of the beta, so I wouldn't be looking for a lot of floorplans or minis. It's not the approach they are taking.

blaked said:

Well, maybe not tactical maps laid out in squares or hexes of the sort use for minis games, but I wouldn't be entirely adverse to seeing a set of semi-generic floor plans that can be put down to give the group a visual aide as to what kind of situation they are looking at.

After all, gotta ensure that Christopher West has a means to stay employed via Star Wars RPGs
(Seriously, if you use maps at all in any of your RPG games, go check out Maps of Mastery. The man does top-notch work.)

On Tactical vs Narrative Combat:

I was an extreme tactical minded simulationist gamer once. I then grew older and played FFG's Warhammer. I too at first thought, what the heck, where are the maps? Where is the grid? It took me actually playing the game to get to understand it. It is brilliant. There are still tactics, they don't go out the door with narrative, trust me. The lack of having to make large maps beforehand helped me as a GM. It sped up play enormously and my players didn't blink.

I would hope EofE would have locations similar to Warhammer. These added enormously to the game. I don't think we need stacks of location cards like Warhammer (but they would be nice), but how about a list of different terrains with modifiers, rules adjustments, etc? It is hard to explain here without going off on a tangent if you have not played FFG Warhammer. I would love to at least see a table including things such as, Starship Hanger, Cell Block, Dune Sea, Seedy Cantina, Droid Factory, etc.

Hey, is there a downloadable character sheet? Or do I just have to be happy with lo-res copies from my printer?

IG-58 said:

Here you go: http://www.fantasyflightgames.com/edge_minisite_sec.asp?eidm=218&esem=4 Also has dice sticker sheet for download!

EDIT: This fora software is not tablet friendly >_<

That last sentence should read "and it has dice stricken sheets for download, too!"

-EF

Thanks mon! Got it saved.

On the topic of battlemaps our group found that introducing battlemaps made combat a lot more interesting in WFRP3, but since SW is much more geared towards ranged combat, in which case the ability for characters to position themselves in order to guard softer targets and hold chokepoints are less important,at the moment we dont really feel the need to use them, ofcause later on we might decide otherwise

To see the houserules we developed for WFRP3 javascript:void(0);/*1349281352322*/ go to the last page to see the battlemap rules