I don't think this has already been addressed. At least, I haven't been able to find an answer anywhere. My problem is that I can't make heads nor tails out of how Scum income is supposed to work.

Looking at the chart on page 124, do they get 20 Thrones a month, plus a roll on the D10 table every time they go up in rank? So if I was a 4th rank Scum, would I make 20 thrones and then roll 4 different times on Table 5-2? Do I just make one roll on the table every month, regardless of how many ranks in Scum I have? Do I just roll on the d10 table once at character creation, and then every month I roll just the earnings part? I mean, let's say I rolled a 7 at chargen... does that mean every month I make my thrones through theft, and so just roll 15+AB10? The tables are confusing to me, and the example doesn't answer my questions in satisfactory fashion. I originally thought the Scum just rolled on table 5-2 every month, and didn't know what to do with that 20 thones / month listening, with no real rank increase in income, but then I realized that it made no sense for a Gang Lord (Scum at 8th rank) to be making the same income as a 1st rank Dreg.

So if anyone could clear this up I would be eternally grateful. Ideally, I'd like to know the official answer, but I'm also curious as to how everyone else out there is handling this issue.

Many thanks!

Based on my read, you've got it right. There's been no errata on it that I can see.

I was under the impression that they roll randomly every month, because crime, luck and scrounging are not always profitable. Some scum fall on hard times, that's the nature of their income.

Yes, that, but the point is they roll once for every rank they go up. In that way, the really bad Scum (no such thing as "good" Scum, neh?) tend to be better off and don't fall on such lean times as the really... uhm... not so badly bad Scum? I surrender...

Pneumonica said:

I think that the 20 thrones mentioned in table 5-1 is just some sort of average amount and should not be summed to the amount from table 5-2. And as I see it, RAW says that you don't get any rank increase for Scum's salary.

On the other hand, the way I'd rule it would be that the normal 10% Rank Increase would apply to Scum as well, and you roll once every month on table 5-2. In other words, just ignore the 20 thrones in the table 5-1, except maybe for determining how much an average NPC scum would make.

Of course, this is just my way of doing things. Yours may differ.

BTW I admit that it isn't written very coherently in the book.

Yeah, I admit that I read it similar to the way you read it at first, and the example seems to at least partially agree with you. I'd call this a Manifest Need for Clarification.

CLARIFY US, EMPERO... er... FANTASY FLIGHT GAMES!

I have to say that I thought it was pretty clear. You roll on table 5-2 each month to determine the ammount of thrones you "earn". The text above the table says to roll each month and the example below tells you (more or less) that the "Thrones/Month" column in table 5-1 should not be added to the total.

If you think it's unfair that a Gang Lord can "earn" as much as a Dreg in one month, just consider that a Commander (Guardsman) only earn 35 thrones more than a Conscript. The rules do allow for aditional stipends that can be given out for successfully accomplishing missions and assignments, and there's no reason why a Scum could not get such a stipend same as a Guardsman or any other career path.

True, xenobiotica, that's the way I took it at first too. But then I noticed that 20 Thrones / month thing, and reading over it again made me realize that the wording for Scum income can actually be interpreted in a few different ways, so I figured I'd just bring it to the boards and see what people said to try to get it cleared up (and hopefully some errata too ). Plus, I'm actually just plain curious as to what exactly the designers intended.

You make a good point on the difference between a Commander and a Conscript. Hadn't noticed that. It's not really a matter of thinking that it's unfair in any sort of rules sense that a Dreg and Gang Lord appear to make the same money, it just feels non intuitive to be. Even if it's not much, I would expect them to be making a _little_ bit more. As to the issue of Inquisitorial stipends, yeah, I know it's there. Unfortunately my GM is the sort reluctant to give a PC anything he hasn't bled for. So that's unlikely. Which wouldn't neccessarily be a problem, except we're starting a new game and there's going to be a Noble in the group, and I'm a little worried about not being able to afford competitive gear, esp. since the other two PCs are a Tech-Priest and a Psyker. Yeah, I know it's a GM issue, and I plan on chatting with him about it, but I want to make sure I'm playing the Scum rules "right" too, so I don't unduley shoot myself in the foot.

On a side note, would it be unethical to report my own OP to the moderator in order to draw attention to my question in the hopes of an official answer?

Ah yes, the ever sought-after intention, the faint glimmer of light in the dense fog that is words that make up the rules. It's like a puzzle with countless solutions, each different from the other, but all leading toward the pot of gold at the end of the rainbow. I frequently also become curious as to what was really meant by a rule, and I tend to go with the most litteral interpretation of the words, taking on faith that the chosen words was double and tripple checked so that the meaning would be as clear as glass. In most cases I find that it works quite well, but sometimes the errata will change the wording not due to missunderstandings but rather because it wasn't balanced enough. And sometimes it's just a jungle out there, where only the strongest survive, i.e. the person that voices his oppinions loudest and refuses to back down. =)

But to the case in point. I think that Gang Lord might not be the best chosen name. This name conjurs up a powerful man/woman in charge of a major operation with many loyal servants beneath him/her, like Daniel Day Lewis' character in Gangs of New York. The reality of the matter, as far as Dark Heresy is concerned, is most likely different; here you would probably still move with a small group of acolytes, changing planets every now and then, making hard to keep your underlings close and taking a part of the profit from their wheelings, dealings and stealings. Instead you'll probably make your money in the same fashion as you did when you were a Dreg: by oppertunity.

Now if you'd like you could always suggest a modification of table 5-2 to your GM, offer him the suggestion that while you make your money in the same way, the fact that you are better at the things you do now than you were before, might give you an edge when in comes to the income sources. Lets take a look at the sources and what you could do with them:

1-3 : Scrounge - 10+1d10 - Suggestion: make a Search Test and for every degree of success roll anoher 1d10, or add 10 more to your roll

4-5: Scam - 15+FB d10 - Suggestion: make a Deceive Test and for every degree of success roll anoher 1d10, or add 15 more to your roll

6-7: Steal - 15+AB d10 - Suggestion: make a Slight of Hand Test and for every degree of success roll anoher 1d10, or add 15 more to your roll

8-9: Scheme - 15+IB d10 - Suggestion: make a Evaluate Test and for every degree of success roll anoher 1d10, or add 15 more to your roll

10: Luck - 50+FP d10 - Suggestion: roll 1d10 and if your is equal to or lower than your number of Fate Points, roll another 1d10, or add 50 (might be bit much though) for every degree. That is 1d10 or 50 more for a roll equal to the number of Fate Points you have, 2d10 or 100 more for a roll of 1 below your number of Fate Points, and so on.

(Considering that you can, within the realm of possibilities, raise a certain characteristic to above 60 and gain a skill mastery of +20 on top of that, in one of the characteristics and/or skills above, it might just have to be changed to "for every two degrees of success". I'll leave that up to your discretion.)

This way you might "earn" more as you increase your characteristics and skill mastery in any given field of expertise. This is just a fun way of dealing with it that just came to mind. Might need some trial and error but I kinda like it. =)

EDIT: As a tweek you might instead just use a simple Fellowship, Agility or Intelligece Test instead of Skill Test, leaving the first and last entry on table 5-2 unchangeable if you think it make either or both too good.

Gang Lord, Crime Lord, Nobody Lord, or whatever you call it, the higher Rank Scum are, one would imagine, better at being Scum than lower Rank Scum, and being Scum is fundamentally done to generate income. I don't see where it says you don't use the Thrones/Month entry on table 5-1. It's not put down anywhere, not even in that example. It is an inclarity, especially given the type of rules omissions and inclarities that are in the rest of the book, so given the incomplete explanation I would like to see it clarified.

However, what I noticed and correct me if this is incorrect, at the Shark rank the skill Trade(Copyist) is available. Surely upon gaining a Trade skill the Scum would now gain income as a member of a Trading Class ("Those that buy and sell or have specialist trades with which to make their living") in which case the Shark is now earning 192 Thrones a month.

Of course some GMs might wish to impose a Trade(Copyist) test or you earn standard Scum income for that month, but I wouldn't

Granted if you choose the other path you are screwed finacially, but don't worry Ocean Finance is here to help!

Well, a Copyist is involved in "book-making" in more ways than one, so it's entirely possible the Copyist isn't invovled in legitimate business. However, criminal enterprise on that level is a rather stable industry (more stable than real estate, I can tell you that), and so I would tend to agree that they'd have some level of stability, even if not very much.

Sure, I don't mind a call to clarify the rule, I'm just saying that the example shows how you determine the monthly income, and since the Thrones/Month is not added to the total, there might just be a reason for that. My approach to most problems like this, as I mentioned in my previous post, is litteral interpretation, I prefer to concern myself with the words that are there, not the ones that are not.

As to the whole Trade issue. Trade skills are after all available through elite advances to all career paths (as long as the GM allows it of course), so if you want to make money from it the GM should require you to make a skill test, probably following the crafting rules from the Inquisitor's Handbook, to add to your current income. But as for bumping you up on table 5-1 to the Trading Classes' income, I don't think that would go over well with a lot of GMs. Then there's nothing stopping a Guardsman, Arbitrator, Imperial Psyker or Adept to do the same, in fact, Adepts begin with either Trade (Copyist) or Trade (Valet) and they're not making the same as an Assassin because of it.