The Dark Kin Online Supplement

By TorogTarkdacil812, in Rogue Trader

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N0-1_H3r3 said:

Fundamentally, it's an exotic form of mercenary - you hire them to do nasty things to other people. Sometimes you'll make do with a dozen or so hired guns from Footfall… sometimes you want the brute muscle of an Ork freebooter (a creature which lives for violence, and typically doesn't have much patience), the feral cunning of a Kroot (a creature for whom devouring the flesh of the fallen is a sacred act) or the merciless precision of the Dark Eldar.

Very true, but I just find it a lot harder to make a Dark Eldar "fit". Kroot are easy, as long as you disregard their distasteful eating habits they're loyal, pragmatic and completely unbiased, so they're perfect mercenaries. Orks are volatile, but at least they tend to be simple and unsubtle so at least you know where they're coming from and will remain loyal as long as you perform regular shows of force. But the Dark Eldar has personal habits more distasteful than the Kroot's, is almost as volatile than the Ork and is assured to be inherently disloyal. And worst of all, unlike the former, the Dark Eldar plots.

N0-1_H3r3 said:

The crew don't have a say in the matter.

The rules for mutiny say otherwise gui%C3%B1o.gif

N0-1_H3r3 said:

And the key point here is "if it thinks it can get away with it". One lone warrior against a starship crew is not the kind of odds a self-serving murderer-for-hire is likely to embrace.

Like you pointed out yourself, Dark Eldar are cunning and patient, so it will obviously not try to backstab him when he is in a position of strength surrounded by subordinates. He'll wait until he's weak, vulnerable and/or distracted. Perhaps when the rivals the Xenos sold him to are storming his house. As the saying goes "Fear the wrath of a patient man".

N0-1_H3r3 said:

And if you don't want them in your game, don't allow them. Just because you're not sold on the idea doesn't mean that others won't jump at the opportunity.

That's beyond the point. I see no reason why such a thing should prevent debate on the matter. But the thing is I'm personally amazed that so much effort is dedicated to what I initially believed to be a niche class. I specially find it odd that playable Dark Eldar appeared before regular Eldar, which carry their own amounts of baggage but at least understand the benefits of mutual cooperation.

DISCLAIMER: This is not Eldar fanboyism. Personally I despise the Eldar as a race, but I still find the whole matter odd regardless.

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well the Dark Eldar did just get a massive revamp recently.Who knows what will happen to Craftworld Eldar when their next codex comes out.

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JuankiMan said:

Very true, but I just find it a lot harder to make a Dark Eldar "fit". Kroot are easy, as long as you disregard their distasteful eating habits they're loyal, pragmatic and completely unbiased, so they're perfect mercenaries. Orks are volatile, but at least they tend to be simple and unsubtle so at least you know where they're coming from and will remain loyal as long as you perform regular shows of force. But the Dark Eldar has personal habits more distasteful than the Kroot's, is almost as volatile than the Ork and is assured to be inherently disloyal. And worst of all, unlike the former, the Dark Eldar plots.

Kroot are spiny cannibalistic bird-people. I hardly think their habits are more acceptable than a Kabalite's penchant for cruelty. Similarly Orks are violent green monstrosities that tend to procreate when they bleed. I know MY Rogue Trader wouldn't appreciate a bunch of snotlings running around his ship, just because his exotic mercenary bled on the deck plates. DE are at least relatably humanoid.

JuankiMan said:

The rules for mutiny say otherwise gui%C3%B1o.gif

Well then, it looks as though your concerns are addressed. The RT had better make sure that he keeps an eye on his Xenos crew-member and makes sure that his presence isn't disruptive enough to seriously damage ship-board operations. It's also likely that any DE or pretty-much any Xeno PC is going to keep to themselves as much as possible, either because of his disdain for filthy mon-keigh or for his own safety.

JuankiMan said:

Like you pointed out yourself, Dark Eldar are cunning and patient, so it will obviously not try to backstab him when he is in a position of strength surrounded by subordinates. He'll wait until he's weak, vulnerable and/or distracted. Perhaps when the rivals the Xenos sold him to are storming his house. As the saying goes "Fear the wrath of a patient man".

The game play that would lead a DE character to that sort of action would be compelling storytelling, if you ask me, and has the potential to encourage inspired roleplaying from a mature player.

JuankiMan said:

N0-1_H3r3 said:

And if you don't want them in your game, don't allow them. Just because you're not sold on the idea doesn't mean that others won't jump at the opportunity.

That's beyond the point. I see no reason why such a thing should prevent debate on the matter. But the thing is I'm personally amazed that so much effort is dedicated to what I initially believed to be a niche class. I specially find it odd that playable Dark Eldar appeared before regular Eldar, which carry their own amounts of baggage but at least understand the benefits of mutual cooperation.

DISCLAIMER: This is not Eldar fanboyism. Personally I despise the Eldar as a race, but I still find the whole matter odd regardless.

It's not beyond the point, it's exactly the point of ANY of these books. And No-1 isn't trying to stifle the discussion, he's just drawing attention to the ultimate freedom that we all have as gamers.
The playability of the DE is likely more related to the subject of the Adventure than anything else. Coupled with the fact that their new codex was released recently, this decision was easy for them. I don't doubt that there is an active campaign at FFG to get playable Craftworld Eldar into the game, maybe they're being saved for their own game, who knows?

Full Disclosure: I AM a Dark Eldar fan-boy.

Edit: Sorry for the screwy quotations.

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Sorry to interrupt the debate- I just wanted to say Bravo FFG! My complements on the prompt response to customer calls for more Dark Eldar PC options.

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Agreed. It's very cool and welcome. I just wish I could get it to work in my PDF reader. The sidebars are illegible on both my laptop and my iPhone, yet for some reason i can read it on my work computer.

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HappyDaze: Looking at Black Crusade, an Incubus Warsuit has 8AP all, if its not listed in Soul Reaver (which means u haven't missed it in the pdf), probably double the weight of Kabalite armour to reflect the superior/heavier armour.

Speaking of Kabalite armour, does it get treated as bearing a mono blade weapon like Eldar Raider armour in Into the Storm?

Still waiting for my copy from Amazon.co.uk…as well as Lathe Worlds for DH

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Rictus said:

Speaking of Kabalite armour, does it get treated as bearing a mono blade weapon like Eldar Raider armour in Into the Storm?

No mention of Kabalite Armour providing such blades. Somewhere in The Soul Reaver it is mentioned that it is vac sealed, but I don't think that it's in the actual description of the Kabalite Armour.

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Hi Happydaze

Thanks for the feedback, if Kabalite armour is vac-sealed then Incubi/Archon armour is to.

Hope I helped out with your query…

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Rictus said:

Hi Happydaze

Thanks for the feedback, if Kabalite armour is vac-sealed then Incubi/Archon armour is to.

Hope I helped out with your query…

By Archon armour, I'm assuming you mean Ghostplate Armour (the one with the horrible field rules).

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Some things I haven't seen come up yet in this thread.

1) Intimidate- Both the Kabalite Warrior and the Wych get upgrades but I can't find where it says either starts with or gains the skill. Notice though it appears as a trained skill on the Character Sheet.

2) Voidfarer for the Wych- Again get upgrades but don't see basic skill anywhere.

3)Cruelty for Wych- I would think this is a shoo-in but apparently they can't get it.

4) Wrangling for Wych- listed twice at level 2 (pg.4)

5) Pity the Weak- Something I think that every True Dark Eldar should have is not available to PC's even though they are to all NPC Wych and Bloodbrides.

6) Lack of Description of Incubus items especially Bloodstone- I have a Codex so I know what they are and can look up for easy reference but this should have been included.

Things I've seen talked about-

1) Incubus armor- Should have been included. Agree with proven All-8, suggested weight seems a bit light, don't think it's enviro-sealed but not sure.

2) Trueborn for Wych- Their fellowship costs are lower that Kabalite Warrior costs so even if it was an option it would probably be a different cost.

Just my thrones worth.

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Kencyr said:

Some things I haven't seen come up yet in this thread.

1) Intimidate- Both the Kabalite Warrior and the Wych get upgrades but I can't find where it says either starts with or gains the skill. Notice though it appears as a trained skill on the Character Sheet.

2) Voidfarer for the Wych- Again get upgrades but don't see basic skill anywhere.

5) Pity the Weak- Something I think that every True Dark Eldar should have is not available to PC's even though they are to all NPC Wych and Bloodbrides.

I could be wrong because I don't currently have access to my copy, but aren't those available to all Dark Eldar as shown in the Soul Reaver section on them (rather than the online supplement)?

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Upon further reflection you are right about intimidate. It is listed as a common skill for all Dark Eldar on page 97 but not as a starting skill on page 102. (I wish they would either put all or none of the common skills in class descriptions.)

Voidfarer shows up at level 2 for warriors upgraded +10 at level 5. For the Wych it only appears as +10 at level 5 with no previous mention. So unless modified, the only way to get it is to become a Skyterror. Maybe the extra Wrangling at level 2 was supposed to be Voidfarer even if the cost is different.

Pity the weak appears at rank 4 for warriors, crap! going over stats again I finally found it at rank 3 for the Wych. It is also available for the Flesh Crafter but not the Skyterror and the Incubus.

Thanks for your help!

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HappyDaze said:

Rictus said:

Speaking of Kabalite armour, does it get treated as bearing a mono blade weapon like Eldar Raider armour in Into the Storm?

No mention of Kabalite Armour providing such blades. Somewhere in The Soul Reaver it is mentioned that it is vac sealed, but I don't think that it's in the actual description of the Kabalite Armour.

It's important to note that Eldar Raider Armour also provides AP 5 to all locations while Kabalite Armour is only AP 4.

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Rictus said:

Thanks for the feedback, if Kabalite armour is vac-sealed then Incubi/Archon armour is to.

Perhaps, but there's not really much on Incubus Armour other than an NPC statline. I'm also wondering if Ghostplate Armour is intended to be vac-sealed. It'd be a real shame if those pockets of lighter-than-air gas (what a stupid idea) rupture in vacuum…

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JuankiMan said:

The rules for mutiny say otherwise gui%C3%B1o.gif

Mutiny is a capital offence. gran_risa.gif

(because noone else said it!)

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JuankiMan said:

Very true, but I just find it a lot harder to make a Dark Eldar "fit". Kroot are easy, as long as you disregard their distasteful eating habits they're loyal, pragmatic and completely unbiased, so they're perfect mercenaries. Orks are volatile, but at least they tend to be simple and unsubtle so at least you know where they're coming from and will remain loyal as long as you perform regular shows of force. But the Dark Eldar has personal habits more distasteful than the Kroot's, is almost as volatile than the Ork and is assured to be inherently disloyal. And worst of all, unlike the former, the Dark Eldar plots.

….

Like you pointed out yourself, Dark Eldar are cunning and patient, so it will obviously not try to backstab him when he is in a position of strength surrounded by subordinates. He'll wait until he's weak, vulnerable and/or distracted. Perhaps when the rivals the Xenos sold him to are storming his house. As the saying goes "Fear the wrath of a patient man".

…

That's beyond the point. I see no reason why such a thing should prevent debate on the matter. But the thing is I'm personally amazed that so much effort is dedicated to what I initially believed to be a niche class. I specially find it odd that playable Dark Eldar appeared before regular Eldar, which carry their own amounts of baggage but at least understand the benefits of mutual cooperation.

DISCLAIMER: This is not Eldar fanboyism. Personally I despise the Eldar as a race, but I still find the whole matter odd regardless.

I'm not really an Eldar fan either. Go humanity! Virtually every other race in the Galaxy wants to kill or enslave humanity (even for 'good' reasons, like throwing us under the daemon engine to ultimately 'kill' Chaos), so nuts to them.

But The Dark Eldar Codex was just so excellent, and the new models so nice, that it's just so fun to play them. I'm still collecting what will ultimately be a small army built around 18 Reaver Jetbikes and 2 Razorwings (with pretty much minimum for cores.. maybe an Inqubi bodyguard), cooked up a little background for it and everything. Which I'll be tying to the Dark Eldar character I really want to play some time.

But getting to my core points…

A Dark Eldar isn't necessarily likely to betray the Rogue Trader he's working with. Such a long lives race can afford to take their time and plan for the very long term, eschewing petty short term gains in their plots. While the Dark Eldar are a truly duplicitous, cold hearted, and cunning race there are reasons there that lend to why they wouldn't make sport of the ship and its crew. Being able to live eons with no help is certainly one advantage, to be noted early on. Just wait 200, maybe 400 years tops, and everyone you dealt with will be dead. Hell, wait 199 years and relish the horror in their eyes as they lay on their deathbed, savouring the agony as you lay waste to all their glories around them, before sending their soul wimpering to their Corpse-God. Or don't, whatever, what concerns do you have for the mayfly Mon-Keigh ? Slip in to the Web-Way and disapeer when the ships lands on a world with an entrance. And it's not as if every Dark Eldar doesn't think they'll essentially live forever (acknowledging the possibility of death doesn't mean accepting it).

Meanwhile, Kroot don't just eat their kills, they eat only meat and prefer the corpses of sentients, like a nice steak to a hotdog, the crew won't be too happy about a Xenos that literally eats people. And Orks, for all their lack of plotting, can still be very cunning, and tend to have very simplistic desires, fighting tough things, so they'll get tougher, is at the top of the list (the Rogue Trader and his officers are pretty tough…). It's how they were physicals and psychologicaly designed, fight to grow bigger and tougher, so they can eventually establish dominance over all the weaker things around them. Dark Eldar are smart enough to know when they have a good deal, and it can generally be assumed that PC's have good reasons for being on a Rogue Trader's crew, that don't include planning to stab them in the back at the first half decent opportunity.

If he acts because the Rogue Trader is "weak", then obviously the Dark Eldar hasn't been doing his job either. A Kabalite Warrior knows how to work with his fellows while on a Realspace Raid, despite the fact that every last member of them is somehow trying to gain position on them within the Kabal. That 'losing' someone's body isn't a common occurence when returning from a raid, and they can be ressurected. It demonstrates that they can get their priorities in order when the situation calls for it. Working together they both can have more to gain, than the Dark Eldar would by being a retard and cutting the Captain's throat at the first opportunity.

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My wifes moral compass just went out the window and she made one killer wych….poor, poor explorers.