I also think it makes more sense to combine them under a common banner for marketing purposes. (Regardless of whether or not they are able to manage a combined core rulebook eventually.) Frankly, I was very surprised to see the Rogue Trader forum created separately. When the announcement was first made, I had just ASSUMED they would re-purpose and re-organize the existing Dark Heresy forums.

I guess we'll see!

Yknow, all rudeness aside I really really really really badly want to talk about space marine roleplaying in a supportive enviroment, but what with having a separate forum for DH and RT theres really nowhere here. Cause it ain't DH and it ain't RT. Meaning the DH forums arn't a sorta catch all for general 40k roleplaying anymore.

I'm told they won't have a Deathwatch forum until a few months before they release it.

Anyway. Yknow.

Dezmond said:

If I may allow one more derail to this topic to answer this, since I haven't figured out the PM system here.

My suggestion is to stop trying to derail the legitimate topics everyone is posting that has nothing to do with this topic, and create one in the Dark Heresy Forums under houserules for now. Be clear and consise about exactly what you want, why Dark Heresy doesn't give you it, and how people would recommend you to fix it until Death Watch comes out.

Don't know how many people will respond concidering their apparent less then enthusiastic attitude towards you, but it at least allows you to create a post that is on topic and isn't derailing another topic.

Now back on topic

aethel said:

I agree about the single forums too. With how much crossover will occur between the games, at least on fluff topics it be much easier to discuss them on one foum and not two. Asking about the average air speed of a mutant swallow carrying a warptouched cocanut means I either post in each or simply pick one.

Fortunatly the community seems to crossover well enough, but after release its going to be a constant state of switching back and forth I think.

Xathess Wolfe said:

Thats because it should only be one RPG. As said on other threads by other voices, Rogue Trader and Dark Heresy are just two separate Campaign Settings, not different games. Its as different as Dark Sun and Forgotten Realms, or Grey Hawk and SpellJammer. Sure each setting has its own campaign specific rules, but they pull from the same core system, same rules, same game.

What FFG is doing, following BI's strategy is releasing a 400+ page book for $60 or so, when it could have been a 254 page book for $40.

The saddest thing is, I will still buy it LOL.

But it reeks of early White Wolf and all Palladium, where they release a new game, but 30% of the words are 100% the same of other books. Afterall, the combat, skills, character generation rules in Ninjas and Superspies was not all that different from Teenage Mutant Ninja Turtles, Heroes Unlimited, Rifts and a few others. Sure they had some differences, but not really enough.

But it does make sense to a certain degree. If you only want to play Rogue Trader (hi Kage) you dont have to buy more then one book, all the rules are self contained.

I still would prefer a D&D style release though. But am thinking this will probably happen in year 4 of the 40K RPG.

Year 1: Dark Heresy

Year 2: Rogue Trader

Year 3: Space Marines

Year 4: Warhammer 40,000 RPG 2nd Edition (or Special Edition)

One can but hope, peacekeeper_b.

And maybe by that time GW et al. will have been brought kicking and screaming into the digital age. <mumbles, grumbles about electronic release media... again!>

Kage

Kage2020 said:

Don't count on it.

But I agree completely with Peacekeeper, but like someone else said FFG is following GW's et al. strategy. And like Peacekeeper i'll end up buying the books too, because now I'm a **** addict.

Course the other option ends up being without knowing what FFG's deal with GW is, that the deal winds up, and GW wants an exorbant amount of money to reissue the license and FFG simple says hell no before all this plays out. It wouldn't be the first time that GW let money get in the way of common sense.

It would give them a chance to rerelease all the rules in one hard cover book, with updates, errata and additions.

Xathess Wolfe said:

I'm not, but there is always a little ray of hope. One of my biggest hopes at the moment is that Rogue Trader will be useful for those individuals who don't want to use the system that it ships with. Dark Heresy didn't quite achieve those goals, at least for me, so yet another hope to add to the wish list.

Kage

Kage2020 said:

I'll second that. not because i want to use a different system...(like all GMs i'm a tinkerer, but frankly i want out of the box mechanics that work so i can get on and play the game)...but because this will be the essential background material so sorely lacking from DH.

Whether its used for other systems or for RT i'm desparately hoping it'll be in there...

Kage2020 said:

I agree, Rogue Trader needs to come out with slightly polished rule system, at least addressing the errata and maybe a few other things we'd be good. But I think they need to keep the same basic system just so we can use the material from both, in both games.

Dez I actually have a question for you, have you read any of the novels set in 40K?

That “badassery” of the table top game that you so cling to doesn’t exist, not even on the table top where marines will from time to time get luckyshotted by some lowly guardsman and die.

Even in the Horus Heresy era where we are reading about the Astartes that became legends among their own kind, the heroes you see die in bloody horrible ways alone locked away in a hole somewhere desperate, bleeding, out numbered and out gunned. Thats the point of the setting, that is what Dark Heresy is all about, fighting despite the odds not because of them. Its out to get you and everything you care about that is why you do what you do, someone has to and no your not the most qualified guy for the job, he’s an interrogator off with the Inquisitor doing something even more important than you are so your it being kick ass was not the point of this game, if you want it to be then you missed that completely.

As for a Deathwatch game, yes I am sure it will be fun, I love exalted as well. From time to time just letting your hair down and going nuts is just what we need, but you also forget the point of exalted was to forgo the need for rules and power gaming by making the players so ub0r from the beginning that they didn’t need to worry about it and could focus on telling a story and role play their characters comparing that setting to what you seem to want from it just shows that you once again missed the point of a game by about a mile.

Now I’m not “the authority” sprouting the absolute truth about things, but how about you sit back and try this out as it was intended get into the spirit of this thing instead of just slagging everything off because the bolter wasn’t what you had imagined it to be or what ever. And I promise that once the DW forum opens up we will be there, just as excited and skeptical and hyped as you will be.

Xathess Wolfe said:

Well, the system I don't have a problem with since—forgive me—I tend only to look at that when something mechanic-y happens in the background descriptions. It is, however, the background descriptions that I'm personally referencing, not the "polishing" (or whatever) of the system itself. Dark Heresy , for me if no one else, suffered from a dearth of background information that allowed you to make an informed decision about the "facts" of the universe that you were presented with. Sure, you had information on the theme, by the facts were also themed. I hope that, for example, discussion on the warp travel, including the different types and the travel times, is not so mired in colour text.

That's all I'm referring to. It's perhaps not quite such a little hope since publishing those figures means that fans tend to listen to them (well, kinda) and that might not be useful to GW, but at the same time... Dang it, I can hope. Just as long as any demo adventure isn't called "Fractured Illusions" or something. It was bad enough that the last was "Shattered Hopes."

( ^ I'm being tongue-in-cheek in that last!)

Kage

How about "Broken Mechanics"? (Sorry I couldn't resist the joke. )

A story about what happens when a techno-virus strikes at the very heart of the " Mechanicum " enclave on a Rogue Trader's ship?

Kage

Let me start out by saying the 40K setting is huge and contains enormous possibilities. I personally think they were very wise to just cover three aspects of the universe with the projected RPG line, because there needs to be supporting structure to give direction to the game. Inquisition agents and Deathwatch Marines have their duties, but they're focused on very different things. Rogue Traders have their ambitions. Each one deals with different aspects of the 40K universe.

Now I appreciate that they're allowing Dark Heresy characters to slide up the power scale. That's good and appropriate.

I do not, however, expect the games to mesh that well. They deal with different themes and different parts of the universe. I do expect that elements of Rogue Trader will be very useful to Dark Heresy and visa versa. After all, Rogue Traders probably won't be dealting with hidden tech heretic conspiracies as Inquisition acolytes, but both will probably run into menaces from the Warp at some point in their careers. Thus I don't see my campaign transforming into Rogue Trader, although through Ascension it might reach those power levels and there might be some overlap.

In short, I expect that each game will be separate, but that some of their material will support the other games. Space Marine weapons and gear from Deathwatch won't really affect my DH characters . . . unless they're unlucky and encounter a Thousand Sons sorcerer on the prowl.

Actually, I mentioned this in another thread, but now that I think about it I definitely sense a lot of GDW's old titles becoming source material for theme and tone of the current WH40K RPG titles. As I said elsewhere, Rogue Traveler looks like it shares concepts with Traveler (wartorn universe, commercial trade, etc.). Dark Heresy is very similar (incliding in title) to Dark Conspiracy (like many horror games, except guns work on the majority of the bad guys, but in the end it takes investigation, teamwork, and large-scale operation to defeat the real evils - also, the evils can be defeated, even if they can't actually destroyed).

How much do you want to bet we'll see a bit of Twlight: 2000 (or Merc: 2000) in Deathwatch? Which will be great - T2K is something of a model for how to set a roleplaying game in a military environment during wartime.

Seems an age ago, but can I just thank Kage for setting me right on my rant about the setting - I think I conveyed my feelings on this a little unclearly!

I just wanted to say, without derailing the topic too much I hope - that I was excited when the DH system came out, simply because as both a role player and a tabletop player as well, this was a highly awaited project - it was unfair of me to suggest that this system is the only definitive way that you could enjoy the setting.

Now - back on topic! I feel that many older role-play systems could inform the development of this - as I have probably said before, CoC was for many years my favorite system, and coupled with T2K or Dark Conspiracy would help to explain the war torn, hopeless fight humanity has on its hands.

We can always only speculate about the eventual power levels within the game, but a gradual progression upwards through Deathwatch, and also a similar difficulty setting in terms of opponents and narrative threads would seem to be keeping all parties happy - and provide enough different aspects of the 40K universe to be experienced to keep most people happy. True, you may have to rig up your own rules to play a Tau pathfinder, but there are enough mechanics to play with to work out your own offshoots if you feel the need.