I'm looking to pick this up for my gaming group. However, there seems to be a number of entry points to the game, and classes spread out amongst them, and no real firm guides telling exactly what is in each product.

My players are unlikely to buy their own rulebooks, particularly when starting a new game, and if they choose to buy something down the line, then great, good for them, etc.

I was originally going to buy the Core Box set, but people on other forums are suggesting also getting the Player's Guide, Adventurer's Toolkit, Creature Guide… and, well, you get the idea.

So what the hell is in these boxes? If I get the Core Box set, what am I missing out on by not buying the Player's Guide/Adventurer's Toolkit, Creature Guide, etc? I'm in two minds whether to bother investing in this game at all, since FFG is as clear as mud in explaining exactly what's in each set. Despite their "Core Product Overview" http://www.fantasyflightgames.com/edge_minisite_sec.asp?eidm=93&esem=4

thanks in advance!

Start with the Core set and the Players Guide. Don't spend a nickel more on the fiasco that was the vaults/guides/core/boxed sets until you're CERTAIN you like the system.

Best of luck.

jh

Core Products:

First of all, understand that there the core box set, the cards and chits of which are available as (duplicates) split between the Players and Gms Vaults. Buying the Core Set renders the Players and GMs Vaults unneccesary.
The guidebooks are a different beast, and draw from several early supplements as well as all the core box set rules and cards.

Well the advantage of the core set is that you are getting a decent dice pool right away. Any other entry point is going to require buying upwards of 4 packs of dice which add up in price.

Several people will respond to this thread, and I wager most will suggest the core set to begin with. Try and find it discounted!

Next up, I'd recommend the players guide, it really pulls a lot of player focused stuff from the early supplements together at a reasonable price. All the data in it (careers, actions etc) is also marked with symbols as to what supplement they are found in. You could observe what non-core careers and actions your players are taking and buy accordingly. Also, once you are familar with

…the core set download the component list from the support area of this site. It will give you plenty of info on what's in each supplement.

Don't fool yourself into thinking you need everything. Just those two products Emerikol suggested is enough. Plus maybe the gathering storm adventure to get you started.

Season with extra dice packs to taste.

**warning: anyone incorrectly discribing the contents of the various boxes will be slapped with a wet fish. There is enough confusion about the products without vague-arsed half renembered claims about what's in which supplement. Know your contents or leave it till you have checked.

I don't really think you need the Player's guide to play. Just go with the core set and get hold of copies of Court Dimon's rules summary (google Gitzmanns gallery and get it there) for each of your players. There are two free scenarios available from FFG and one in the core set. I don't think you should buy more scenarios until you know that you like the system. Also, don't forget to get the errata/FAQ if you only have the core set, there's good info in there.

If this thread doesn't PROVE MY POINT made in the "Does WFRP even exist" thread, I don't know what does,….. ARE YOU LISTENING FFG !!!!

Regarding FFG "hearing." FFG has made the CHOICE that they do not participate on the WFRP3 boards. They do not feel that WFPR3 is important enough to bother. Every company has to make a choice about their business model and how they interact with the people that purchase their products, and FFG has made their choice.

Regarding a better entry point than the Core + Players Guide, I wouldn't hold my breath waiting for anything other than an occasional over-specialized POD until this license runs out. The playtesters are reported to "not be doing anything" at this point according to the other thread.

The point of the players guide is so your players don't have to reference, lose, damage, or otherwise deal with "your stuff." If you get the PDF, they can also take it home.

The entry point for this game is "buy cheap" if you're going to get in There are tons of things for sale online (except for the dice..for which some fan here will hopefully come up with a printable sticker system).

I like this system though. I like it more than I ever liked 3eD&D, Call of Cthulhu, and even better than Paranois (I know..tough to beat! . I like that I can houserule away whatever I don't like without breaking the system (e.g. talent socketing, party sheets) and add things with little or no trouble (e.g. "Master" rank careers, Liber Fanatica, Yepsnopes's elf and dwarf careers).

jh

Azazelx said:

Just so I feel I've answered your question:

You won't miss out on anything by buying the core set, all subsequent supplements compliment and expand the core set. -With the exception of the players and games masters vaults. Those two vaults simply re-package the components from the coreset.

The hard bound books also cover all the content found in the core set AND rules/component content from the early supplements*. However, it is obviously presented differently in book format and YMMV as to relying on them without components. And the core big box gives you a decent amount of dice anyway.

As to the best guide to what is in each box, the support page Component List is the best option. But to make sense of it, you probably need to be familiar with the game.

*Adventurer's Toolkit , The Gathering Storm, Game Master's Toolkit, Winds of Magic, Edge of Night . Signs of Faith

Thank you guys for all of the replies.

My pencilled-in order for when my payday hits next week is as follows:

Warhammer Fantasy RPG Player's Guide
Warhammer Fantasy RPG Adventurer Toolkit
Warhammer Fantasy RPG The Creature Guide
Warhammer Fantasy RPG Core Box Set

I figure this should give me enough junk for a solid start to the game, most - or if not all of the careers(?) an an extensive bestiary so I can make maximum use of my Warhammer models.

What do you think? Missing anything vital? Buying too much? Look good?

My players haven't purchased rules. Count Dimon's summary of skills etc. (glitzman's site) is about all they need. Particulary if using pregenerated characters.

Azazelx said:

Unless you want something for the players to look at, I wouldn't worry about the Player's Guide; the Core Box Set has a players handbook included (though the guide is more thorough and includes rules and details from the Winds of Magic and Signs of Faith boxes).

I found the Creature Guide deeply disappointing, and wouldn't recommend it. The GM handbook with the Core Box Set lists -most- of the creatures you'll use. There's perhaps a few high level, non-ruinous power* monsters in there but you'll rarely use them. I bought the CG mostly so I had more options for beastmen, and found that the only other beastmen type it listed were Minotaurs; no Bestigors, Centigors, Bray Shamans, etc. I ended up simply buying the Warhammer Army Book for the beastmen and created creatures based on that.

Adventurer's Toolkit is neat to have, though, and you should be able to pick it up pretty cheap. I think Box Set + Toolkit will give you a good starting point.

*all the ruinous power creatures are listed in their separate guides, which come with the expansions.

We have the tradition that GM owns the game. Period. Maybe it's a Finnish thing - never heard of any collective or partial ownership of RPG.

As Emirikol pointed out, FFG cannot make up their mind if they should stick with card-based approach or book-based approach on rules and content. I picked up WFRP 3rd edition due to innovative new system with dice and handy cards and would never-ever consider buying exact same contents in core books (actually reduced content if you consider expansions after they were published).

So you need to decide:

a) card-based model: no core books, all the contents with Hero's Call, Winds of Magic, Signs of Hammer etc.

b) book-based model: only core books and core box + extra dice

Why would you invest in mixing them up?

What I hear of core books that they editing sucks - a lot of errors. Check those threads separately.

But .. WHFRP rocks! It's a really good system and I don't want to trade it away. I'm too old (!!) to browse books and player group is too lazy - the cards are a very engaging mechanism for us.

We have the tradition that GM owns the game. Period. Maybe it's a Finnish thing - never heard of any collective or partial ownership of RPG.

As Emirikol pointed out, FFG cannot make up their mind if they should stick with card-based approach or book-based approach on rules and content. I picked up WFRP 3rd edition due to innovative new system with dice and handy cards and would never-ever consider buying exact same contents in core books (actually reduced content if you consider expansions after they were published).

So you need to decide:

a) card-based model: no core books, all the contents with Hero's Call, Winds of Magic, Signs of Hammer etc.

b) book-based model: only core books and core box + extra dice

Why would you invest in mixing them up?

What I hear of core books that they editing sucks - a lot of errors. Check those threads separately.

But .. WHFRP rocks! It's a really good system and I don't want to trade it away. I'm too old (!!) to browse books and player group is too lazy - the cards are a very engaging mechanism for us.

Azazelx said:

As someone else said Creature Guide could have been a better product but if you are going full chits then the cards for creature actions in the Creature Vault makes that a good addition in your list IMO.

Bear in mind the core set only has cards for 3 priest and 3 wizard careers too and only the first few ranks worth

stanmons said:

Well, I've always taken what is probably a similar attitude - players can purchase as many books etc as they like, but if/when I am GM I reserve the right to allow/disallow/house rule/make up whatever I want. I haven't roleplayed properly in over 10 years, so all my experience is with the book-based model, and frankly that's where my comfort zone will lie.

However, I don't mind stuff like cards as "cheat sheets" - but I do dislike the idea that cards might be the only place that the rules for XYZ might be located.

As for a) vs b) - the problem is that I have NFI exactly what is what, or how their seemingly-schizophrenic product line actually fits together. Honestly, I'm considering dropping the idea of WHFRP completely and just getting a couple of the 40k RP books, which is a shame since I do like the Warhammer world, and think it lends itself very well to Roleplay (and I really liked the older editions of the game with the career paths, etc).

Insofar as picking up stuff cheap, I'm in Australia so my options are much more limited. As it's a Fantasy Flight prouduct, my best prices will be comparable to slightly under UK RRP.

On a related note, I was in a LGS in the city last night and I noticed a card pack for "Dreadfleet Captain" just to add to the confuction. - What exactly is this/for? The guy int he shop had no idea how it fit together with the game.

The "dreadfleet captains" pack is a "print on demand" product, retailers can stock it too. It's essentially a "GM booster back" - it gives some NPC cards for high level characters - mostly baddies - as ship captains from the dreadfleet line but they are easily reskinned into other settings (one makes a great tomb king for example). Then there are actions, mostly ones that go with these baddies but can be used by other critters too if you want, and some location cards like "below decks", "overboard, "crows nest" and "captains cabin" (the last one makes being favourtite cabin boy look like a good deal, till you see the captain cards and realize your odds of making it to dawn are slim).

I like the card aspect of game in that while it's a beast to manage (you have to organize them carefully) it allows whipping up different NPC's and baddies very easily by combining them with different action cards. A boar becomes a daemon in 2 minutes of prep time if you need a new daemon.