Stalking hounds condition

By .Zephyr., in CoC Rules Discussion

Response: After an opponent's character enters play due to a triggered effect, put Stalking Hound into play from your hand or discard pile.

1) Does

Corrupted Midwife
Action: Exhaust Corrupted Midwife to choose 1 character in your discard pile. Play that character as if it were in your hand as your next action.

count? Its played like from hand, but without this triggered effect he could not be played…

2) Does my

Pulled from the Beyond
Action: Choose a non-event card in an opponent's discard pile with cost X or lower. Put that card into play under your control. If that card is still in play at the end of the phase, discard it.

Count when i use opponents character from discard pile. Literally it works, but does "opponents" in stalking hound mean owner(works), controller(doesn't work) or both?

The way the card is worded, I would say that 2) applies. However, I don't think this is how it was intended, and the wording on Stalking Hound should really read "After an opponent puts a character into play through a triggered effect…"

I'm torn on 1) however. Part of me says that it's part of the triggered effect of Corrupted Midwife. But the other part of me says that after CM's Action is resolved, it has really just modified the area from which you may play cards for your next play. Therefore, it has not actually entered via a triggered effect, but was allowed to enter play as a result of a play area change (which occurred by a triggered effect). Does that make sense?

Maybe it's because it's monday and early in the morning, but 'm not even sure what the question is to be honest.

What is the scenario here? Which of these cards are yours and which are your opponent's?

With the possible exception of Conspiracy cards, 'your' and 'your opponent's' always refer to the current controller.

If your opponent uses the ability of Corrupted Midwife to put a character into play from his discard pile, then you get to put your Stalking Hound into play. Was that the question?

Ok, some clarification. Stalking hounds are always mine.

1) Opponent uses Midwife (me using Midwife definitely doesnt trigger Hounds). Her effect is quite nonstandard so Im really confused does this count as putting character via effect, or just some modyfication of where you play character from and doesnt count… i can see it going both ways.

2) Is actualy interesting in both cases:

2a) I put a character from opponents discard pile.

2b) Opponent puts character from my discard pile.

I think its more about who's controller, not owner. But this wording of "opponents character" makes me wonder, maybe owner also counts (and as seen above im not the only one who thinks it might work)

.Zephyr. said:

i can see it going both ways.

How is this crystal clear is beyond me.

The other way around is: Midwife effect does not bring character into play, it only allows for playing characters from different place(discard pile). The character doesn't enter play due to a card effect, he enters play due to playing him.

A similar situation happens with

Opener of the Gate
Your Monster cards are also Spell cards while they are in your hand, deck, or discard pile.

and

Chant of Thoth
Action: Choose up to 3 Spell or Artifact cards in your discard pile. Until the end of the phase you may play those cards as though you were playing them from your hand. If any of the chosen cards are event cards, put them on the bottom of your deck instead of your discard pile after playing them.

The effect doesnt bring character to play, it just allows playing characters from other place like they were in your hand. The question is does "due to" mean effect actualy doing it or this kind of wierd intercation.

The more i think of it the more i think Corrupted Midwife doesnt count, in the same way as cost reducers do not count.

[edit]

Found this paragraph about "opponents" meaning control rather than ownership, this means this hack of getting character from opponents discard doesnt work :( , thx for answering that.

.Zephyr. said:

How is this crystal clear is beyond me.

I noticed. Just send your question to Damon, then.

Midwife does not put a character into play. It allows you to pay for a character from your discard pile to be played as if it was in your hand. Play and put into play are two different things that result in the same thing but by two different methods. Stalking Hound absolutely cannot be triggered off Corrupted Midwife. There is no interaction there.

This is a good example of the overthinking thing.

You already know that Midwife doesn't put the card into play. It SHOULD be crystal clear. But then some nagging doubt gnaws at you. "But… I can only play the card from discard because of Midwife. So does that count in some strange way?" Your crystal clear obvious answer now seems muddy.

Don't confuse game terms with conversational meanings. Yes, in a sense you can say that you're playing this card because of Midwife and therefore in some sense it is "due to" Midwife. But you can extend that forever. Would you say that playing the card is "due to" resourcing a card? It kind of is, because if you hadn't resourced a card then you wouldn't be able to pay for it. In the same line, it's "due to" drawing the card, it's "due to" it being your Operations phase, it's "due to" buying the card pack, it's "due to" putting the card in your deck, it's "due to" someone teaching you the game, it's "due to" driving to the game store that day, it's "due to" learning to speak and read English. There's a whole tower of "due to's" if you want to get silly about it, but the single direct "due to" is that you're playing the character by the normal means of draining a domain to put it into play. All the others are not the direct cause of the character being played and therefore do not apply. Midwife's ability alters the ways that you can play a character, but it is not directly putting the character into play itself.

Damon confirmed Midwife doesn't count for hounds.

I still think it is really not clear. Midwife effect also says "Play that character as if it were in your hand as your next action." So you're not normally playing a card. Youre playing a card because action of midwife forced you to play it as a prt of its effect. If it said:

"untill the end of the phase chosen character counts as if it was in your hand for the purpose of playing it"

then yeah, no hounds. Here it was problematic for me, and i dont think its that clear for non CCG Veretan players (if it is clear for them).

Hmm while were at Midwife, her effect force you to play the chosen card, even if opponent does something like draining your domain and you'd need to use other domain you dont want to use? (I think yes)