Assuming a planet has a pretty straight-forward PDF (in other words, not compoesd of Gunslingers or what-not), would the Guardsman career be appropriate for members of a Planetary Defense Force?

Or, perhaps to put it better, would there be a special background package for a PDF Guardsman?

I'd say guardsman is 100% appropriate for representing the PDF.

Perhaps highly appropriate for beginning mo... Erm, Guardsman.

Kage

The only major difference I see between the Gaurd and a Planitary Defense Force is the planit that they get shot on.

Edit: that is to say a solder is a solder is a solder. Heck, I think it's been mentioned that a lot of the Gaurd Units are comprised of PDF units that were simply conscripted into the Gaurd. It makes sense after all. If you are in bad need of some solders to go die somewhere real quick, you nab a portion of a planet's already trained PDF, shove a Primer and a Lasgun in their hands, and drop them on a war world. No fuss, no mess.

The Guardsman career is meant to be more generic than the name implies. Really, only Tech-Priests and Psykers are truly organizationally-bound; even the Cleric career can be applied to different character origins simply by neglecting the Ecclesiarchy-specific skills. The 'guard' career should be applicable to any sort of fightin' (wo)man you care to give it to - IG, Naval Marine, PDF, or the local headman's bully-boys. Though you can certainly use the examples in the Inquisitor's Handbook to modify the starter package to more closely represent your char's specific origin (such as swapping the driving/swim option for something more appropriate to his homeworld).

Fair enough. I wanted to get other people's perspectives on it. Obviously, if we're talking something like Catachan Planetary Defense, there'd be a special background in it, but I was just curious as to people's opinions about the ordinary PDFs.

Thanks.

IMO the main thing that seperates PDF from Imperial Guard is equipment and training.

The PDF are usually equipped with autoguns and basic flak vests, whereas the IG get lasguns and guard flak armour. PDF won't have access to tanks like Leman Russ's or Hellhounds, maybe a few Chimeras and Sentinals if anything.

Comparing the PDF the the Guard in my games is like comparing rentacops to SWAT.

Maintaining standing armies is formidably expensive and draws the most productive members of society out of that same workforce and puts them off somewhere they can shoot up targets, run around and blow off expensive ammo in most cases. They're mostly a heavy burden on the economy, resources and manpower unless you're getting shot at on a regular basis.

It makes sense that the majority of a PDF are probably a reservist force that get a packed lunch and get to shoot guns on the weekend, how well they're equipped is entirely up to the resource base of where they're stationed. For the most part the IG does get the lions share of things in terms of the military, its not to say that they couldnt maintain a fairly large mechanised and rear eschelon forces to help the guard out when they need to advance and hold ground. Mechanised and Artillery is particually well suited to reservist troops simply because they dont get shot at as much and become annoying casualties and if they do, they've got things like APC's which make them far more effective than a footslogger.

Plus you have to blood the little bastards once in awhile to at least keep the officers and NCO's up to some level of realistic objectivity when they in turn train their soldiers.

Guardsman is entirely fighting focused, a PDF reservist would have a rounder skill set in terms of what they know and probably a trade skill to make them useful

I have found a good example when describing the difference to my players is that the IG is like the standard army and PDF's are like the territorial army. In that they are both groups of trained soldiers with similar equipment and organization but the army (IG) gets alot more 'practical experience' than the TA (local PDF).

Of course some PDF's may be closer to representing an IG regiment and others not so much by a long shot depending on the Planetary Govenor and where they are in relation to active war zones.

Depending on your planet but most PDF troopers would have Autoguns instead of a Lasgun

So a package should look something like this:

PDF
Cost: 100xp
Skills: Trade (any)
Talents: Basic Weapon Training (SP)
Equipment: Exchange the Lasgun for an Autogun if appropriate

Obviously, if we're talking something like Catachan Planetary Defense, there'd be a special background in it, but I was just curious as to people's opinions about the ordinary PDFs.

Actually, Catachan is easily representable by using the Feral World rules. The technological incompetence may not be that appropriate (though it's not like guardsmen are getting Tech-Use anywhen soon...), but the rest of the traits are spot-on.

You could also use the heavy or citizen templates in the base book if you are just looking for insta-critters rather than PC's. Depending on where you are, the PDF could be a simple unorganized militia or better trained as described in the Cain novels but I wouldn't think many would be considered career soldiers.

Rashid ad Din Sinan said:

I'd think that most PDF solders would be career solders.

Imperial society doesn't strike me as a society that endorses a lot of moonlighting. You do what you do and that's all you do seems to be the big order of the day. Beyond that, the Imperium lives in a constant militarized state in anticipation of war (even if a particular plait hasn't seen war in 3000 years or so). If you're anticipating war, then, by golly, you'll have a standing army... even if you have to manufacture things for them to shoot at until something real comes along.

Besides, there's plenty for a planets PDF to do besides shoot things. There's docks and orbits to patrol, cargoes incoming and out going that have to be checked, smugglers and pirates that have to be put down, important dignitaries to escort, parades to march in, secret black ops to run for such and such noble who's got an in with the governor, there's black ops to run for the governor (he's always got someone that needs killing), renegade infested wastelands that hive bound convoys must cross and be protected crossing...

Just look at earth. We never leave our planet yet we're always finding things for armies to do and we don't even live in a grimdark future and have far more things going on then just war. I'd say in a grimdark future where there's only war (and heresy!), there'd be plenty for a planets army to do to keep them busy for thousands of years to come.

I think at low levels like starting characters there wouldbe no difference so it's a perfect baground.

Later depending on the world the difference is likely to become clear.

I imagine that PDF forces arecontinously hampered by the fact that anyone who shows any talent for it islikely to be drafted into the IG and their budget (again depending on the planet) is going to be far less.

I will throw in my partial disagreement at the PDFs being "hampered" in this way. Generally speaking, the Administratum has no actual way of determining the comparitive skill of one PDF soldier from another, or even a regiment or batallion - that level of micromanagement is impossible on even a sector scale, let alone a galactic scale. Since planets have clearly-defined tithes that vary one world to the next, it's entirely probable that worlds that require large, well-trained PDF garrisons are able to keep most of them. Indeed, even worlds that don't immediately require them might maintain such a force, depending on how they've worked with the Administratum.

Overall, what and how much a planet tithes depends on its diplomatic skill and economic power (high-power worlds tend to tithe more, since they have more to give). A planet that wants to keep most or all of its well-trained PDF guard has only to give something else instead, provided their diplomats can slip it past the Administratum.

However, I will say that you would often be right - planets that tend to produce good warriors will tend to include good warriors in their tithes.

Face Eater said:

I don't see it quite like that.

Every world is required to maintain a standing defence force, by Imperial Law. By comparison, only a relative minority of worlds will ever raise an Imperial Guard regiment, and fewer worlds than that will raise Imperial Guard regiments regularly.

Thus, I see there as being three broad groups:

Militarised Worlds - where the primary, or even only, tithed resource produced by the world is soldiers. Such worlds train twice as many soldiers as they need to send off each year for the tithe, giving them extremely high-quality PDF forces (as those forces are trained an equipped to high Imperial Guard standards; such worlds tend to have strong military traditions anyway, and produce high-quality Imperial Guard regiments as a result). Cadia and Krieg are good examples of this.

Semi-militarised worlds - where the planet's tithe consists partially of regularly-raised Guard regiments, alongside other resources such as machinery. Necromunda and Armageddon are both good examples of this, as the regiments they produce are not the sole resource the planet exists for. As Guard regiments are an expected and regular part of the Tithe, they can be raised specifically for that purpose.

Non-militarised worlds - where the raising of Guard regiments is not a regular part of the planet's tithe, and where (in some cases) the world may only be called upon to raise a regiment in extreme and rare cases, such as a nearby crusade in need of reinforcements. Such regiments will sometimes be taken directly from PDF forces, as the fact that they're already trained means that they can be gathered and used quickly, but other methods of gathering recruits may be used in other situations. Such PDF units don't tend to be of particularly high quality - if there was any kind of strong military tradition on the planet, they'd be producing regiments more frequently (because the military tradition is a strength the Munitorum can take advantage of), and worlds of strategic importance tend to be heavily garissoned, which in itself often requires raising significant numbers of troops (which a goods-producing world can't necessarily do regularly, if the populace is needed to farm/mine/etc).

In the first case, the difference between Guard and PDF is one of random chance (literally so on Cadia - men are selected for Imperial Guard or Interior Guard randomly, and many of Cadia's finest soldiers never left their homeworld), but the distinction is largely nonexistent in regards to training and equipment, making such worlds extremely well-defended (deliberately, in the case of Cadia).

In the second, the PDF are a requirement of membership in the Imperium, while the Imperial Guard are a product to be delivered on a regular basis, no different in theory from the latest shipload of macro-tractors for the nearby agri-world, or those billion crates of lasgun charge packs. The PDF is seperate from, and largely unconcerned with, the manufactured regiments being shipped off-world to throne-knows-where.

In the third, the PDF exists by itself, but once every few centuries, something big might happen that requires that some of the world's men - PDF and civilian alike be recruited into the Imperial Guard.