Would anybody like to have some options in regiment creation which would give their characters some "bad" talents, modifiers or drwabacks, in exchange for more creation points? For example:

Arrogant (Regimental Commander): Gain Rival (Imperial Guard and Imperial Navy), cost: -1 point

Cursed (Regiment Commander): Lose 1 Fate point, gain 1d5+3 corruption, cost: -3 points

Fera

Primitive Arms (Equipment): Change lasgun, or lascarabine in regiment standard kit for best-craftmanship Muske, cost: -2 points

I apologise that dont have time for more expanded writeup, but here´s the idea, what is the general feeling about it? It could solve problems with "not enough points for my dream regiment", get some new challenges into game (c´mon, muskets..) and maybe even stimulate roleplaying, having a jerk for colonel could be fun.

I really like the idea but I have this nagging feeling that this will lead to some very min-maxed regiments. Still I like the idea more than I fear its abuse. I'll try to contribute some ideas once I've got a few workable ones.

That's a good idea, though it would probably be stuff for a future supplement. Still, the "Primitive Arms" would be oh so easy to abuse.

Pick that => get 2 free creation points => spend 5 points from your Regimental Kit allowance to include a M36 Lasgun => Profit!

I was working on the same concept a while ago.

• Lack of Supplies (1-2): your regiment is very low on supplies, for 1 point halve all the avaible consumable (ammunitions, food, water , fuel), for 2 point apply the above effect and also reduce the starting kit points by 5.
• Regimental Feud (1): your regiment have an ongoing feud with another unit operating in the same war theatre, gain the Enemy (one IG regiment) talent.
• Reputation (1): the regiment have a reputation for something like, lack of discipline, lazyness or scavenging, as arule of thumb the commisariat are hot on their tail everything something go awry. Gain the Enemy (Commisariat) talent.

Woodclaw said:

I like these for the most part but I wouldn't have Enemy (Commisariat), that'd get awkward for any one playing a Commissar, lol. Instead make it so they have a -10 to interactions with outside Imperial authorities or something

I'd add one to your list:

• Prejudice (1-2) : Whether due to home world traditions, the commanding officers own prejudice, or even a legitimate practical reason, the regiment makes little to no use of any personnel suffering from any form of mutation, stable or otherwise. For 1 point the players in this regiment have no access to psykers. For 2 points the players in this regiment have no access Ogryns or Rattlings either.

This I think would make lots of sense for an armored regiment (what are orgyns and rattlings doing in a tank core? lol) as that third legitimate reason, but as well it can add flavor to any other regiment. Imagine the RP outcomes when they have to work with an rattling or psyker from another regiment?

TCBC Freak said:

That discipline cannot work because it only has two outcomes: either someone in the work wanted to pick one those classes and ends up pissed, or no one did and they're getting creation points for free.

JuankiMan said:

Not really, there are RP options that can come up later. The GM could force the squad to work with an Inquisitor (or some other million possible options such a Rattling scout who has to lead them to an objective) who is a psyker and then their ingrained prejudice would need to play out (the group might here that a Junior Officer plans to try and friendly fire the guy, would the PC try and stop it?). From a points vs penalty perspective yeah I see your point, but even if no one wanted to play those classes and they get "Free points" the long term things a GM can do to push this option are cool. Even having the over all commander of the war zone be a psyker (rare but not impossible as it could be an Inquisitor or even just a trusted friend to a lord general leading the main crusade on another world while you're fighting on a world near by under his command) could lead to problems. Also, I have one player who always plays a Psyker, every time, and this would give me as a GM a way to keep him from doing so without just saying no; and in fact rewarding him, in a way, for branching out that he doesn't get if I just say no.

To show this aspect more maybe you could add an interaction penalty or need a Will Power test to work amicably with the abhuman?

Yeah, this would be easily abusable but these are mere ideas, every drawback would need some comment and critique and there should definitely be a limit of how much of them can be taken (two is optimal is think), but on the other hand I think even normal non-esseential doctrines should be limited (I think we can go with five). I have few other sketchy ideas:

Conscripts/Cannon Fodder/"Hurray, let´s finish the training!" (Doctrine) : Regiment is untrained and unprepared for the battlefield according to the standards of Imperial Guard, and, well, not expected to survive. -3 WS, -3 BS, -3 WP, +2 poitns **I thought about -5 but that seems far too harsh

Dress Uniforms (Equipemnt): Take a pride in your colours guardsman! Gain Good Quality Dress Uniform as part of your regimental standard kit which imposes -10 on all Stealth checks, +1 point

I agree with JuankiMan. A doctrine that restricts a choice at the point of character creation only generally does not work as a drawback, unless it severely undermines the group's ability to function. Since OW is a relatively open system, there is no class that is absolutely needed - more or less everyone can be replaced.

Cifer said:

Second (third) this, drawback must be felt by every character, if not it loses its meaning. Getting offtopic myself but it is a shame that doctrines seem to be purely mechanical, I like demaneurs in DW and motivations in BC as they encourage roleplaying by gameplay benefits.

I dunno, the attitudes and values of a regiment from a death world and a regiment from a shrine world are vastly different.

Commanding officer traits can be used in game to depict the units leader/command structure.

Regimental doctrines like armoured company can also affect the atttitudes (we're an armoured regiment, we are blessed to be protected by the Emperor's armour! vs. Crap, they just handing flak vests and las pistols to our guys and hope we can keep up with the sentinal?!)

Certainly, much of it is mechanical. But at the same time it presents a fluff/rp oppurtunity. Really, any time it is treated as "mechanical" is when the fluff is replaced with something else, while the mechanical benefit is taken (such as when players want to claim to have Favoured Enemy against Orks, but choose Iron Discipline for the perks. The group is effectively choosing an RP option anyway).