Yeah, no amount of soak is gonna save ya from a TD, it looks like. I re-read your post and see your point about it being activated, and I think theres some merit to it. For TD's, maybe they should activate blast for all engaged targets automatically, and activating the blast quality would extend that out to all targets in short (nee' close) range.

Grenades with blast as written I think are fine. You could use those advantages to recover strain or grant boosts/setbacks, but … why? If you're tossing a grenade, aren't you trying to clear a group of enemies? I guess I just don't see where players would reasonably choose that option in situations where they chose to use the grenade in the first place. The alternate TD rule I described up there I think could help avoid that, or add a rule (house or official) that the first 2 advantages rolled on a grenade-like weapon attack must be used to active blast.

And, by the maker, the things got vicious 4 on it… appropriate, but /shudder.

-WJL

The reason I brought it up, is that if someone has the choice to activate Blast…there's always going to be someone that chooses not to. And I could see a scenario where a player lobs a grenade at a foe and chooses to save the adjacent friendly NPC from the grenade's wrath. Also, hardwiring the advantage into Blast is sort of against the whole idea of spending Advantage and Threat, Despair and Triumph by choice. At that point you might as well wrap it into Success or Failure.

Maybe Blast would work better if it activated on a number of successes after the first?

I dunno…I'm not trying to make mountains out of mole-hills. I just know that even the best role players occasionally lean on the rules a bit harder than what "makes sense." And I just don't like having to engage in those awkward "Y eah I know the rules say you can Scott…but I just really don't want you to. " The people I play with tend to throw popcorn and then move on. Other GM's would find themselves in more hot water.

Callidon said:

I don't think that's necessarily a bad thing - grenades are really meant for groups of enemies - if you're going after a single foe there are better weapons to use, so it's not like PCs will use this abusively as the best way to hurt the opponent. I can see then using it as "positioning the grednade just right to get the bad guy but not the ally.

However, I think it'd be interesting to give the GM the option of activating a blast weapon with the same threat cost as the usual advantage cost to activate, for just this situation… in fact, if FFG don't use that as an official rule, I certainly will be in the games I'm GMing…

Just read the table of weapons closely in this week's patch notes. Noticed that Breach was removed from lightsabers.

Seriously gotta disagree with this decision. Those glowsticks carved the **** out of vehicles (Capital ship blast doors, AT-AT underbellies and speeder bike control surfaces) and industrial equipment like it weren't no thang. Its gotta have at least pierce 5, but breach i thought was totally appropriate, and inherent to the weapon.

Not looking for a fight or argument about this in the forum, just expressing an opinion because I think it was errata'd poorly. This is being house-ruled back into my game.

-WJL

LethalDose said:

I'm pretty sure the internal blast doors on a capital ship are not 'capital scale' in the sense that they are designed to withstand turbolaser battery fire.

But either way, it has already been mentioned elsewhere that the table was in error. Lightsabers retain breach 1 but lose defensive 2.

I still think breach is way off, but fine .

gribble said:

Callidon said:

Yeah, although in that case I'd just rule that they managed to aim the grenade such that it only got the opponent. After all, in that scenario they have at least one success, with one or more advantages, so things should be beneficial. At least with this rule, they always run the risk of hitting allies if the roll goes badly… :-)

Found an odd inconsistency in the armor & Mod section.

The Optical Camofluage System explicitly states "… [it] is nearly useless on laminate and plastoid heavy armor…" (pg 126)

This attachment requires 2 hard points, but the the only armors that have 2 hard points w/o invoking mod talents like Jury-rig or tinkerer, are laminate and heavy battle armor (which I assume is equivalent to "plastoid heavy armor").

Can we get this errata'd to resolve this inconsistency? Some options that make sense are:

• OCS only requires one HP
• Increase the HPs on Adverse Environment gear
• Add some other armor (Scout- or Commando-style) that the OCS is appropriate for and has 2 or more HP

Thanks!

-WJL

TRIPOD REQUIRED ON LIGHT REPEATER?: Beta page 109 states, "Light repeaters are tripod-mounted support weapons for….." This suggests a light repeater requires a tripod. The light repeater of Star Wars doesn't seem to require a tripod. Beta original page 125 and updates include a Bipod Mount that can be added to a light repeater suggesting even a bipod is not required. SOLUTION : Change the descriptive text for Light Repeaters to be something like, "are typically bipod-mounted support weapons for…".

NO HOLSTER?: A holster could be considered a mundane item such as shoes or gloves that doesn't need to be accounted for. However, we do have Backpacks (page 118) and even a Weapon Sling (page 123) that happens to be useable only for Ranged (heavy) weapons. A holster for Ranged (light) weapons seems appropriate. PROBLEM as written: Weapon Sling gives Quick Draw talent for a heavy weapon such as a rifle. Normally it takes a Maneuver to draw a weapon (page 130). Two people with the same talents, one using a Heavy Blaster Rifle with a sling, another just a Hold-out Blaster - the Heavy Blaster Rifle wielder can ready the big rifle without a Maneuver, the tiny blaster can only be drawn with a Maneuver. SOLUTION : By default Ranged (heavy) requires an Action to ready from a default shoulder sling. Quick Draw talent or adding a Combat Sling reduces this to a Maneuver. Ranged (light) by default requires a Maneuver to pull from a standard holster or sheath. Quick Draw talent or Speed Holster/Sheath (imagine Han's holster or a knife in a forearm sheath) reduces this to Incidental.

PADDED BETTER THEN STORMTROOPER ARMOR: Cheap Padded Armor (ex: Hoth Rebel Soldiers) provides the same protection (0 Defense 2 Soak) as Laminate Stormtrooper Armor at 1/5th the price and less encumbrence! Laminate (Stormtrooper Armor) page 113 is described as armor that, "defelects and negates incoming damage." This goes along with the laser/blaster reflective ability of Stormtrooper armor described in the Star Wars mythos. The Defense ability of armor as described on page 113 states, "This reflects the armor's ability to deflect damage away from the user's body". Sounds like the defensive ability described of the Stormtooper armor on the same page, which has a 0 Defense. SOLUTION : Add 1 Defense for Laminate but only against Blasters and Energy Weapons. This makes the Laminate still weaker then Heavy Battle Armor (1 Defense against all forms of damage) while giving it an advantage over the cheaper and lighter Padded Armor.

Sturn said:

For a Light Repeater, it has a Cumbersome Rating of 4, which means you need a Brawn of 4 or better to be able to fire the weapon without suffer a set-back die. Since most beings are going to have a Brawn of 2, maybe 3 at best, that means no tripod equals an increase in attack difficulty for each point of difference. So for most folks, using the SW equivalent of a light machine gun means using a tripod or bipod, unless you're an exceptionally buff individual or are a good enough shot that an extra difficulty die isn't that big a deal.

Backpack and Utility Belts each increase your maximum encumbrance value, where a holster really wouldn't have much of a game effect. Like you said, a holster is tantamount to a pair of gloves. Also, the Weapon Sling has to be specially modified to grant the Quick Draw talent; on it's own it just makes a heavier weapon (like a light repeating blaster) a bit easier to carry around and use.

As for Laminate Armor, the primary perk it offers over the Padded Armor is that Laminate Armor has 4 Hard Points, which means room for upgrades. The Padded Armor has 0 Hard Points, so no upgrading it at all. In fact, I'd make it a GM ruling that Stormtrooper armor has already spent one of those Hard Points on the Enhanced Optics Suite, which gives an environmental edge against Rebel troopers that are wearing just Padded Armor. And given how generally ineffective even Stormtrooper armor tends to be against blasters in the movies, giving it any sort of bonus against blasters doesn't really seem appropriate.

Donovan Morningfire said:

Donovan Morningfire said:

There is nothing in the beta book or updates about a weapon sling, "having to be specially modified to grant the Quick Draw talent." If you purchase a Weapon Sling, it grants Quick Draw for your weapon as written. I agree, if this is what you are saying, that it is a special sling, not just a shoulder sling but more akin to swat or current army slings that allow quicker access to the weapon, as in dangling from the hip or chest. So a special sling is allowed that is better then a simple sling. Why not for a holster also? Especially if it also fixes a problem.

I'm equating a simple holster or shoulder sling to gloves, a special speed holster equal to the more complex Weapon Sling. I can't see how anyone would support a Weapon Sling that makes a heavy weapon quicker then a light weapon to ready without something available for lighter weapons. The Weapon Sling is broken without something else since it can only be added to heavy weapons. If we keep the Weapon Sling there needs to be something that allows an even lighter weapon a similar sort of improvement, such as a speed holster or special sheath…..just like what is offered with the weapon sling. If not we get the issue of big weapons being quicker to pull out then smaller weapons. Broken.

Donovan Morningfire said:

Because it has often been described as refective of energy weapons? Padded armor has never been described as such. Stormtrooper armor was meant to be elite but is pretty much equal to the simple padded armor of the rebels. One can have more gadgets, the other is 1/5th the price and lighter. As is it doesn't seem to emulate the elite armor of the Stormtroopers in my opinion. It's a simple fix to add 1 Defense to blaster/energy weapons only. I don't think that imbalances anything. Adding a single Setback die (1 Defense) to Stormtrooper armor isn't going to suddenly have blaster bolts reflecting commonly off of the armor, especially when being shot at by the movie heroes.

Sturn said:

Uh, this is straight up wrong.

"Innate talent Mod [Quick Draw]" is listed as a mod option. On the opposing page it clearly says mods must be installed to attachments separately. The weapon sling attachment only reduces the Cumbersome by one point when installed. It costs 100 creds and a Hard mechanics check to add any mod to an attachment.

-WJL

LethalDose said:

Ah ok I see what he meant now, my bad.

So a heavy weapon can be modified (with a mechancis roll) to be more quickly drawn then a light weapon. A light weapon can never be modified to be drawn quicker. I still see the same problem.

Still back to a sling is offered that can be modified. A holster is not. Heavy weapons can be made to be more quickly drawn then light weapons. I can imagine a Trandoshan merc packing a large Heavy Blaster Rifle making fun of the Rodian gunslinger in the group after he modifies his sling. "I can draw my big rifle quicker then you can draw your little pistols!" Rodian to Referee, "Can I try to have my holsters modified too?" Referee flipping through pages, "Nope, I guess you have to earn the ability throught a talent tree".

Add this to Gear?

HOLSTER (SHEATH)

A simple device to hold Ranged (light) weapon in the case of a Holster, or a Melee weapon of less then 3 encumbrance in the case of a Sheath.

Base Modifiers: None.
Modification Options: Innate Talent Mode (Quick Draw).
Hard Point Requirements: None.
Cost: 200 Credits.

I think I understand now why a holster was not included. It's not an "attachment" like a sling but a seperate item. The RAW has modding only to special attachments. This would be broadening modding to Gear, not just Attachments. I don't think that is a bad thing (it would be nice to be able to boost my Comlink's range for example), but it would be a substantial change to RAW.

Page 123, Field Front Sight. It gives any pistol weapon the quick draw mod.

-EF

Did you see the "Filed Front Sight" attachment in the same list? Provides quick draw for Ranged (light) weapons.

-WJL

LethalDose said:

Did you see the post just before this one?

No I did not, that completely fixes it for me. I got to Weapon Sling, stopped, glanced around for a holster, didn't find one.

I apologize, just got my book 2 days ago. Before I post again I promise I will read more.

Sturn said:

Don't sweat it. Some the answers to questions folks have can take some digging, and it can be alarmingly easy to overlook stuff.

Sturn said:

Obviously, I did not. EF and I have a bad habit of doing this to each other. Its like when in a ninja war and I didn't even realize it… Oh ****, I think that means he won…

-WJL

Page 123 Filed Front Sight states it is a common mod on Holdout Blasters. It costs one hard point. On page 110 Table 5-5, Holdout Blasters have 0 hard points to install mods.

Is there a problem with a mod needing 0 Hard Points? If not, Filed Front Sight is a candidate since you aren't actually adding anything to a weapon, but taking away.

Page 125, underbarrel attachments. These take up 2 hard points and are described as being only for rifles. The Slugthrower Rifle has only 1 hard point so can't attempt to mount it.

Page 110, Table 5-5 (Ranged and Gunnery Weapons). Related to above, I think three of the weapons need their hard points increased.

As noted above, perhaps Holdout Blaster needs more then 0 Hard Points. Increasing it to just 1 helps.

Slugthrowers seem to have been short changed in hard points also. A Slugthrower Pistol has 0 hard points even though it's probably compariable in size to the Blaster Pistol which has 3 hard points! The Slugthrower Rifle has 1 hard point even though it should be comparable in size (enc is 5) to either the Blaster Rifle or Heavy Blaster Rifle, both of which have 4 hard points. As written, a Blaster CARBINE and Heavy Blaster PISTOL have 1 or 2 more hard points then a Slugthrower RIFLE! Perhaps change Slugthrower Pistol to 2 or 3 hard points and Slugthrower Rifle to 4. If there are currently not enough slugthrower mods to fill these hard points, I'm hoping that would be changed by a supplement someday. Better to have the hard points ready now then have to redact rules later. Or in the core book add a couple slugthrower-only mods such as a Heavy Barrel akin to the blaster's marksman barrel.

The slugthrower reduction on hard points may be a mechanic for preventing installation of certain mods meant only for blasters. For example, the Augmented Spin Barrel is meant for blasters and takes 2 Hard Points. A Slugthrower Rifle only has 1 hard point so can't install it. Wouldn't it be simpler just to state the barrel is only for blasters? If there are other mods not intended for slugthrowers, just state so and don't try to limit them with the hard point count.

Well, it seems that slugthrower weaopns are the red-headed stepchildren in terms of ranged weapons, being sub-par to blasters in just about every respect.

That said, I think increasing the Hard Point value of hold-out blasters, and slugthrower weapons by 1 would be the easiest solution to implement, bearing in mind that slugthrower weapons generally have more moving parts than blasters according to SW logic (which certainly doesn't always adhere to our real-world logic or physics) and thus less room for "extra options."

While a Filed Front Sight is "taking away" rather than "adding on," I think the Hard Point cost should be there more as a balancing measure. Don't have my book handy, but unless there's a significant downside (such as suffering a set-back die when attacking), getting a free Quick Draw talent for just a few credits is a pretty darn good bargain, even more so if it doesn't cost any of a weapons' valuable Hard Points to "install."

Understood on the balancing issue. I would be happy with 1 Hard Point for a Holdout Blaster and leaving the Filed Front Sight as is.

I get your point about moving parts, but it seems a little bit of a stretch. If my theory on why the slugthrowers have less hard points is correct, I still think the solution is to have other attachments for slugthrowers available and clearly spell out which ones are just for blasters. A realworld Slugthrower Rifle could easily have a Forearm Grip, Under-Barrel Grenade Launcher, and Telescopic Sight easily. That is 4 Hard Points. The Slugthrower Rifle gets 1 Hard Point.

Uhm… shouldn't the "Ionization Blaster" have the ION quality?

Sturn said:

See below for my suggestion which I posted in the combat thread

Boehm said:

I think autofire is so powerful that increasing teh cumbersome rating, when firing autofire would be cool …which would also give a real advantage to characters with a high brawn … - this way unless u are really strong u wouldnt be able to hit anything unless brace the gun …and if its a big gun use a bi or tri-pod

LukeZZ said:

Well, it would be a lot easier than the current "Stun Damage (Droids Only)" text that's been slapped on the weapon.

A random idea for a modification for riffles and carbines

Detachable barrel: (HP 1?) decreasing encumbrance by 1 and giving a difficulty die to detact a character keeping it hidden (under his coat etc) takes 4 maneuvers to assembly – can be upgraded 2 times each time reducing assembly time by 1 maneuver.