drkjedi35 said:

Typically, FFG staff do not answer via the forums. However, you are welcome to submit a rules question through the link at the very bottom of the page. They will usually reply to that message and you can then post the answer on the forum for the rest of the community to see. That will happen before a FAQ is released. In my experience, FFG tends to be a little slow with releasing FAQs.

drkjedi35 said:

The problem with that scenario is that by putting that much at risk you really need a reliable return. That's why I think a chained flight would need to stalk a TIE Fighter -- making sure to get that kill will balance the odds given that you're presenting a clumped target to what may be a more maneuverable enemy. Let me break out what I mean by clumped: (1) fighters flying tight are more likely to bounce into things and (2) fighters that need to fly tight to benefit from a mechanic will move more predictably and likely take stress to quickly get the prey back into their sights. On the other hand, you could say that taking a big risk needs to have a big payoff. If you lost shields on Biggs or Biggs altogether but took out Vader, I think that would be pretty acceptable. I think the major strength of Vader is that no one shoots before him. That may be the key to this analysis.

Budgernaut said:

Thanks! I didn't see that link down there. I just submitted the question. When the answer comes back, I'll let you guys know.

Roy

Below is the response I got.

Hello, Roy,

You can indeed chain the effect of multiple Swarm Tactics (ST). This is because you resolve your abilities sharing the same timing in any order you choose. Thus, Wedge can use his ST on Luke, then Luke can use his ST on Biggs. As a result, all three ships have a pilot skill of 9 until the end of the Combat phase.

Thanks for playing!

James Kniffen
Associate Game Designer
Fantasy Flight Games

I'm glad that this combination works. I'll try it out once I have three X-wings and let you know how it goes.

Roy

That's the other way round to how I interpret the action (with Wedge giving Luke PS9 and Luke giving Biggs PS8).

I am not complaining.

That's really impressive that Mr. Kniffen got back to you so quickly. More evidence (in addition to Team Covenant's interview video) that he's a quality guy -- which is great for all of us X-Wing fans since he'll be handling expansions IIRC!

Regarding his answer, I'll be scouring the rest of the rules for similar situations once my stuff finally arrives. That idea of resolving simultaneously timed abilities in any order the controlling player chooses is bound to come up in other places -- just hopefully not where more than one player is involved (whose choice then?).

Also, now we know we're discussing the right topic tactics-wise by considering whether a three-fighter formation is worth more in a 100-point game than a two-fighter formation with the third flight member either serving as bait or providing cover. That three-fighter formation is going to be much tougher to keep together. In that case, maybe chaining will be more of a "hey, my starfighters happen to be close together" moment than something you count on while writing a list.

drkjedi35 said:

Granted, Blue Angeling limits your board presence, but in games where you don't really care about securing objectives and you're there to pew pew untilm the other guys drops, this sounds really funny. That's worth a try or two this weekend.

Manchu said:

Methinks you hit it on the head there. The "how" part is now settled. Time to sort out the practical use on the table. Taking the three ships and upgrades as stated just to allow that option is going to have to prove itself on the table. Using Biggs as #3 in that list means it's probably only going to work for a single turn. Staying in that formation would mean Biggs' special action will almost guarantee that he'll not be seeing the end of the game. So that's one Swarm Tactics upgrade that'll go unused after turn 2.

Too bad its not possible to get two Named characters with swarm tactics and two rookie pilots in a 100pt list. Giving two low end pilots high end skills while allowing them to move in pairs rather than in one bunch would seem to be more dangerous.

-DavicusPrime

Stunami said:

Well, always glad to be wrong! This really changes things! Now it's a viable (although dubious in quality) to take Luke+ST, Rookie+ST, Rookie+ST, etc, and just start moving the squad in formation like Blue Angels.

I don't think that Rookies have the option to take a skill upgrade. Which greatly limits the type of army list available to you. You'll have to grab two named characters with the skill upgrade option to be able to chain them. So you'll have two high point cost models and your choice of one middle to low grade pilot in your choice of fighter to fill out the 100pts. Not a lot of flexibility in list building nor in maneuvering to utilize it.

I don't think this will be a common combo because of that.

-DavicusPrime

It probably won't be a common combo for the Rebels. But remember that this can be done with Imperials also. Vader and a few of the TIE Fighter pilots can use ST just like Wedge and Luke. And they cost a little less. Not saying that this version will be used any more than the Rebels. Just pointing out the possibilities.

Roy

I don't know, I think it might be a real strength of the X-Wings to fly in formation. TIE Fighters seem like they're going to want to scramble, but a group of X-Wings in a nice formation could really solve that problem.

If you've got 2+ X-Wings staggered, then a TIE will very rarely be able to stay out of everyone's firing arc. Otherwise, I can see barrel rolls potentially allowing TIE's to fire with impunity a good chunk of the time. I know in the tourney vid, there were numerous times where, if instead of focusing or evading, he had barrel rolled, he could have slipped out of firing arcs all together.

OTOH, Rory kept Luke and Garven in formation (regardless if by decision or chance) for pretty much the entire game. Are you referring to escaping the Y-Wing and Rookie? IIRC, he did barrel out of the Y-Wing's arc at least once.

I was actually kinda surprised by the number of 180 degree turns both sides made. The space combat games I've played before have been capital scale ships so I expected the usual charge and first exchange of broadsides followed by a swirling attempt at getting back into firing position. I'm not used to having ships that can actually turn that fast. And the Stress tokens didn't cause as much harm as I expected. And that was probably due to the lack of variety they used with their action choices anyway.

This being fighter scale stuff, the head-to-head charge was followed by repeated flips instead of circling battles I'm used to with Capital scale games like Fire Storm Armada and Battle Fleet Gothic. That's a mindset I'm going to have to retrain.

-DavicusPrime

I think the dynamics will change a bit as people get more familiar with the two sides. The two sides should control vastly differently, and honestly, I can see flipping on the Rebel side not being nearly as useful against a swarm of TIEs that are controlled in certain ways.

If you focus the TIEs on the flanks of the X-Wings, the flip would be useless, and you'd really force the X-Wings to constantly have wingmen that are staggered rather than parallel.

Manchu said:

I'm near 100% positive that in the case of abilities resolving at the same time by multiple players, the player with initiative will resolve all of their abilities first.

What's left to be determined is who has initiative. We know that in the typical squad-building game (that most of us will be playing) initiative goes to the player with the lowest points. If tied, the Imperial player gets initiative. But as we saw at the tournament, there are many times when two Imperials face off. If two Imps both have the same number of squad points, who gets initiative? The answer to that question should also inform us on how initiative works in 2v2 games.

Budgernaut said:

Same scenario happens with 2 Rebs with equal points. My bet is on a simple roll off if the usual deciding criteria fails to provide the answer.

-DavicusPrime

DavicusPrime said:

Yeah I'd agree. Roll, flip, thumb wrestle, whatever.