This might just be a rant, but late in the game, when the Quarom card deck is entirely in the presidents hand, all they have to do is play 1 card,

then it is automaticly placed on the top of the deck, and then draw that card again, and play it over and over and over.

example.

I had 3 centurions on the ship. (me the cylon) & the player after me, executive ordered the Pres, He then played the destroy a Centurion card, then drew it and destroyed the other 2nd one. then on his turn, drew it again, and killed the last centurion.

I just think that late in the game the Quarom cards are too powerfull. and perhaps their should be some kind of limit. to either hand size, or perhaps cards being removed from the game, or even cards could only be played once per turn?

Has anyone else had this type of experiance?

http://new.fantasyflightgames.com/edge_foros_discusion.asp?efid=24&efcid=1&efidt=39893

An earlier thread on this subject

This Quorum card strat seems to indicate that the president is doing little else but actually drawing quorum cards and EO are possibly being used to accelerate this. This means you are not having to deal with other threats. This strat seems to only really be viable when you have little else to do. In most games Ive been in so far the President hardly has the time to draw 5 or 6 cards let alone the whole deck.

I consider it a non-issue. Too many limiting factors I think:

1 - The President would have to spend ALL his actions on drawing two quorum cards a turn. An executive order or two would be needed. Even by the time the entire deck is in his hand, the game easily could be over.

2 - Threats from Centurions or Raiders isn't as big as the threat of losing resources. The actions spent on drawing quorum cards could have been used to use the Armory to try and take them out.

3 - The Presidency can be taken over by someone else pretty easily (an unrevealed cylon for example) ...

Yes .. it sucks when the situation comes up .. but I don't think that potential combo makes or breaks the game.

I've had the cards all go into the Presidents hand once. I was the President and I ended up wasting a lot of time over it. I actually used quite a bit of the quorum deck as well to recover morale and food but Galactica died to incoming attacks trashing our civilian ships and population.

Please note that while I was a Cylon and I was not activiating Vipers in Command, I was not defending in the Armory, I was not drawing stacks of politics cards and I was stirring up arguments by efficient placement of the Vice President and advance scout cards to stir it between players - all these would still probably occur in the hands of a human President. Also they'd need to order the President on more than one occasion (again happened to me).

All in all it was suboptimal and the players realised eventually forcing me to reveal and hand the cards on. Even then using the cards as best they could didn't save them, they were down a player and the next President was in fact busy flying a Viper as well as handling the Quorum cards.

Add to that a number of the cards go out of the game when used successfully and the ability to choose is less useful than you might think. While I can see that in some games the right card in the Presidents hand churning might save you I'd suggest that getting the whole hand is so suboptimal that if they get lucky and see that sort of edge effect I'd live with it - they invested a lot of time and it came off that time, so be it.

However, in my opinion, it IS sub-optimal to get to a place where you can benefit from it, its unlikely to reliably be useful and why I delighted in using it as a Cylon President....

It can also be nullified very easily with taking Colonial one out of play altogether.

We had a game recently where the president needed to be helping out in other areas like EO the pilots or someone else this took away from their ability to draw Q cards.

Even without Colonial 1 they can still do a forced Draw using the President's card. Granted, without the President's office milling the deck takes a lot longer.

Melonball said:

They can draw it but they cant play it the same turn except on an EO from another player which wastes an action of that player.

SirThom said:

I had exactly this experience in my second game. I was the cylon (sleeper) and revealed myself late in the game. Resources were low, but there weren't any threats in the form of ships. For my super crisis card, I got the "Place two centurions on the start of the boarding track." Great ! (I thought). However, much like your situation, our president had all (but one maybe) of the quorum cards. And so, both centurions got destroyed before they could really get anywhere. Also, any time a food resource was lost, the quorum card to gain a food was played. We finished the game (which the humans won, of course), though it was completely pointless to play out. The aggravating thing was that although the humans were two full jumps from victory, I realized that there was nothing I could do to prevent it (barring some sort of miracle). I've only had this happen once thus far, but I'm definitely considering some sort of house rule to offset this.

aammondd said:

Actually, I think they can play it on the same turn. From what I recall, the president can draw a quorum card into their hand. Then, they can either play a card from their hand or draw another one. Maybe I'm remembering the rule incorrectly though.

If you are in the President's Office on Colonial One, you can draw a quorum card. Then you can either draw an additional one or play one from your hand. this is all one action.

ColtsFan76 said:

So, are you saying that you can or cannot play a drawn card during your turn (assuming you don't draw a second one)?

It depends on what action you're technically performing.

The President title card allows you, as an action, to either (1) draw one Quorum card or (2) play one Quorum card that is already in your hand. The player holding the President title card may do one of these two things as an action whenever he wishes.

However, the President's Office space on the gameboard allows you, as an action, to first draw one Quorum card and then either (1) play any Quorum card in your hand, including the one you just drew or (2) draw a second Quorum card. So, if the President uses his action to activate the President's Office space he may draw a card and then either play a card or draw a second one. This is superior to simply activating the President title card; but it requires that the player be located in the President's Office on Colonial One.

clloyd09 said:

What OverMatt said. if in the Office, you can draw 1 and play 1 -or- draw 2.

ColtsFan76 said:

OK, thanks guys. That's what I thought.

clloyd09 said:

Fry said:

Yes, I believe we did that. Maybe I used the wrong example. In any case, I believe "Brutal Force" was used multiple times.

clloyd09 said:

Authorization of Brutal Force is definitely the problematic one. The others have little or no teeth in the hands of a human and in terms of being repetitive.

Reply to above: Where does it say in the rules that a successful Morale or Food Quorum card is removed from play, not just discarded?

Dan said:

On the card.

For example, Inspirational Speech says this:

"Action: Roll a die. If 6 or higher, gain 1 morale and remove this card from the game . Otherwise, no effect and discard this card."

(emphasis added)

Food Rationing makes a similar comment.

Sinis said:

Brutal force has its own negative issues. Each use of the card risks a population so no matter how many times you cycle it your resources keep ticking.

Too low a risk, and non-existant with Strategic Planning.

This one should probably be "remove from the game" as well, although the Quorum card mining is not that easy to acheive.

Its a 1 in 4 chance, thats significant - especially if you turn them over and over. Strategic planning removes the risk but pulls a resource out of hand to do it and you have to have one available.

Brutal Force for me is a highly clever card designed to tempt players to use it more than necessary. Its very handy I grant you in game saving to stop the Centurion on the track, but frankly otherwise its usually better to use an action to Exec order a pilot to use Max Firepower twice for anything flying. No risk to the pop there either, Strat planning is just as useful etc. I use it for game savers only and would worry about any President turning the card over and over - either on their ability or the species

myrm said:

A 25% chance of 1 population loss is miniscule if you destroy a Centurion that could potentially end the game or destroy three raiders that might destroy one (1) civilian ship.

1 Population is nothing when you look at the consequences of centurions or raiders when the Civ ships don't have bodyguards. And even then, it's only 25% (0% if you have a strategic planning). I'd say Brutal Force is a pretty favourable play. It's certainly not a 'play every moment you can' card in the scenario discussed in this thread, but it's certainly a 'play every moment even 1 population is threatened' card.

The other quorum cards may be useful, but I don't see why one would really waste turns drawing them when you could launch scout instead. I think this is one of the main reasons to go for quorum cards. The population loss chance could be higher, but remove from game seems a bit harsh don't you think?