Talking to Team Covenant, Steve Kimball emphasized that X-Wing is a strong game because it has depth. Choosing pilots, droids, and armament is one aspect of that depth. With the announcement of "medium" sized ships, I think that aspect can get even … well, deeper. As everyone knows, the Falcon can be flown with a co-pilot and I hope the game will reflect this. Han Solo at the helm with Chewbacca at his side should be different, both in terms of costs and benefits, than Lando flying with Nien Nunb. But it would be really cool if you could purchase a whole crew for the Falcon and actually change who was doing what during the course of the game. (The classic examples are when Han and Luke hop on the guns or when Han and Threepio head back to engine room before the asteroid field chase in ESB.) Even if you couldn't have characters changing rolls during the course of a game like that, it would still be interesting to allow different characters to be "bought" at different rolls before play. So Han maybe would cost more as a pilot than co-pilot while the reverse was true of Chewie with each of them having correspondingly better benefits in their respective "primary" rolls.

What do you guys think?

I could see it working pretty well mechanically.

The Falcon card will likely include the pilot. Say Han, Lando, or a couple of generic YT-1300s. Then, the upgrade bar at the bottom would have (depending of Falcon or generic freighter) a slot for missiles, 2 turrets, and a co-pilot. The co-pilot would be almost like the astromech upgrade on an X-Wing. It could provide a variety of bonuses to the ship, like shield recharging or changing the difficulty of maneuvers. Likewise, it could be possible to have the gunners built into the turret upgrade (although that seems way less likely than a copilot).

So different costs for the Falcon (i.e., different Falcon cards) with Han, Chewie, and Lando as the pilots. And then co-pilot cards for each of them plus Nien Nunb? Just have rule about characters being unique if there isn't already one (no, you can't field three X-Wings all piloted by Luke). I like the idea of having a turret upgrade card that has Han or whoever built into it. The main point here is that medium-sized ships could be characterized as having crews rather than just as having pilots.

Hard to see Han being a co-pilot on his own ship! So: Ship cards:YT-1300 (rookie), YT-1300 (veteran), Millenium Falcon (Han Solo), Millenium Falcon (Lando Calrissian). Upgrades: Basic co-pilot, Chewbacca, Nein Numb, torpedoes, turret gunners. I'd guess the co-pilots would get a special co-pilot action or improve the chances of the pilot doing his….

Cheers

Mark

There definitely ought to be a Millennium Falcon [Chewbacca] card as well given that Chewie takes the wheel quite a bit. You'd need at least that plus Quad Laser [Han] and Quad Laser [Luke] to do the escape from the Death Star sequence (I can't remember whether Leia was co-piloting the Falcon in that scene).

I agree that the upgrade system already in place will be great for the Falcon. So far even though the ship stats are on the pilot card, they have been the same for every pilot of the same ship. I wonder if that will hold true for the Falcon. I can totally see the Falcon Piuloted by Han to have a higher Agility, or other stats than a standard YT-1300.

"She may not look like much, but she's got it where it counts, kid. I've made a lot of special modifications myself."

I should the Falcon's stats are significantly different from a generic YT-1300!

The current upgrade system would be great for a co-pilot rule. Nice idea. Does Slave 1 get one too since we saw that in EP2?

I would think Slave I could be flown solo as well as it could be with a co-pilot, as long as Boba Fett is the pilot.

I like this idea. But with the Falcon, the turrets are the ship's primary weapon. The question i have is whether or not you can target two separate targets due to the separate turrets.

The falcon also has missile launchers so giving it that upgrade option would make sense.

Co-pilots should be an option. And I definitely think Specific ships like the Falcon and Slave-1 should have ship specific stat lines different from a "stock" freighter as the ships are a character in themselves.

It's this sort of thing that would make Larger ships that much more complicated to run assuming the scale doesn't break them for this game. You would need to pick a captain and then add multiple upgrade options to build the crew up for the ship. Doable, but it seems that the way to run bigger ships is going to be running them as multiple characters traveling together.

-DavicusPrime

DavicusPrime said:

Maybe the dorsal turret will be the primary weapon and the ventral turret will be an upgrade. They could word the upgrade such that it will let you use the primary and upgrade as long as they target two separate ships.

Roy

@Davicus: Just to be clear, are you suggesting separating ships from pilots into two separate cards?

Manchu said:

Nope. The Card for the base of the model is unique to the pilot so changing the ship's stat-line to match the pilot's uniquely modified ship doesn't require any new mechanic. It does mean that taking a YT-1300 with Han Solo or Calrisian automatically makes the ship the Millenium Falcon, while taking a generic pilot would make it a generic YT-1300.

As for larger ships… I was still thinking in terms of upgrades. You get ship X with Captain Y which defines the ship and it's relative crew skill. Then you would have the option to add upgrades to your crew slots, be it your gun crew, engineering crew or whatever the brainy folks come up with for the design of larger ships.

-DavicusPrime

There is nothing stopping them from coming out with a different icon for a ship upgrade that is a "co pilot" upgrade. You would just use the co pilot and its bonus just like an X-wing uses an astromech droid.

I'm wondering if the co-pilot will be an essential part of the crew, meaning you MUST take a co-pilot, with their own sets of options.

Hypothetical example, or, how I would have done it.

So Han's YT1300 is the Falcon say at 50pts and comes with shields, weapons, actions etc, as well as other optional upgrades (like a second turret) much as we've already seen on the starfighters. Lando's YT1300 is also the Falcon (45pts) but has different equipment, actions as well as upgrades. You could also get a Rebel Sympathiser whose YT1300 is not the Falcon (40pts).

Choice of co-pilots, for example, Chewie + 6pts, Leia +4pts. Chewie would bring different upgrade options and possible actions to what Leia would.

Perhaps choices of Co-pilots would be pilot specific, so Lando could choose Chewie and Nien Nunb, but not Leia.

Just my tuppence worth.

The big question in my mind is would the 'listing to the left' maneuver be a Han Solo specific action or included on the dial?

Nalydd said:

Nice. Chewie should also be able to repair (shield) damage to the Falcon.

With the co-pilot (game) mechanic no one has mentioned the Falcon's dorsal and ventral quad turbo laser turrets. Leia has been known to climb into a gun well with Han (taking the the other well [What do you think I meant? ], and Chewie taking the controls.

I could also see the quads being controlled by an "unnamed character" to simplify things.

Nalydd said:

HAHA! exactly what I was thinking! it would have to be an action, with the effect of (for some unknown reason) making you untargetable for one turn, in exchange for not firing…

R2D2 said:

Only works if you shout "Besides, I know a few maneuvers!" while revealing the dial…

haslo said:

Absolutely.

Manchu said:

There is no card for the ship. There are only pilot cards. It just so happens that every x-wing pilot card has gives the x-wing the same stats. The only thing that is actually determined by the ship (other than the pilot) is the maneuver dial.

If a stock YT-1300 had different stats than the Falcon it wouldn't require any rules changes at all.

Here's an interesting thought as well. So far all Pilot Abilities are "positive" abilities, and the lower class pilots don't have any ability at all. In the interest in only packaging one Maneuver Dial what if the generic pilots for the YT-1300 had a Pilot Ability of "1-speed turns are not allowed". This would allow you to put that maneuver on the dial when Han is piloting the ship, but disallow it for the generic pilots.

Aahzmandius_Karrde said:

I think the idea of having one maneuver dial for all versions of a ship is to show that they are bound by the ships specifications. Green, white, and red indicate which maneuvers cause stress on the pilot. So, I was thinking more along the lines of having certain white maneuvers being green for Han, and certain red maneuvers be white. To show his expertise in performing those maneuvers.

Roy

drkjedi35 said:

That's my thought as well. Also, I've been thinking that Stress Tokens should enhance certain abilities that Han has. He was always great in a pinch and I would love to see that translated in the game. Also, we've been told directly by FFG that this is basically a CCG with miniatures. So, mechanics could be introduced that "break the rules" by superseding them in specific situations. Also, Slave I should have some rules that enhance rear attacks to simulate his ability to tail without being detected.

CCG with miniatures? What do you mean?

Manchu said:

The core mechanic of all CCGs is the idea that for virtually any rule in the game's system, there is a card or ability that bends or breaks that rule.