D2 What a disappointment ..

By Svarun2, in Descent: Journeys in the Dark

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MasterBeastman said:

svarun said:

Yes i was wrong about the stun but that is only due to the poorly written text on the card…

I don t understand why you consider my post trolling i just shared my opinion, and i explained why that is so …

The other argument i think is worth mentioning is that in the D2 forum i see no know names from people that contributed most to D1 FAQ and that speaks on my behalf … Go figure why that is so …

Clearly D2 has a different audience than D1…even though you may call D1 unbalanced it did not matter that much in my experience … it was more about making the right play in the given situation with the resources you had at the time, and the thing was tha game gave you loads of options … and i think the more you really understood the game the more balanced it became, because you got to understand where the real threats were…

And don t be to smart on me if you have not played D1

Any negativity about D2 is crushed immediately on these forums. Take it from me, I was here day 1 complaining about the lack of tactics and the broken rules. Even within this thread people have complained about me posting bostezo.gif . Now I just "troll" by once or twice a week to see if anybody has realized how much this game sucks. I was wondering why they took down the D1 forums, but I think you figured it out - us D1 players have our game and FFG no longer makes games that cater to our playstyle (at least not ones called Descent haha).

My group and I have a very deep understanding of D1 and that's why we enjoy it so much - it was fairly balanced (RtL anyway) and very crunchy, the exact opposite of D2. Yeah, it took a long time to play it but that was one of the things my group liked about it, even though we all have "real life jobs".

It still boggles my mind how people can find the decision making in D2 to have any depth whatsoever. It further boggles my mind that people play D2 for its immersion. D1 and D2 are board games, not RPGs. They don't have immersion because they're not supposed to.

Well, maybe people on this forum don't react well to your negativity because the people that frequent these forums like the game. Does that make sense?

I mean, seriously.

Why did they take down the D1 forums? Same reason WotC stopped supporting 3.5 D&D. It's no longer a supported product. There is no incentive for a company to continue supporting a forum for an out-of-print game. That being said, there's nothing to stop any person from starting their own D1 community, as was done with HeroScape, and probably numerous other games.

What is that you hope to accomplish here? You troll by to see if anyone has realized how much the game sucks? I don't think that'll ever happen to me. I enjoy playing the game a great deal.

So… what? Are you hoping that if you complain loudly enough, FFG will stop supporting this game? There's only one thing that would accomplish that: poor sales.

Are you hoping that they're resurrect D1? If so, some kind of e-mail petition might do more.

What boggles me is that the people who are unsatisfied with this game continue to post in this forum as though their negativity will somehow catch to the rest of us.

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KristoffStark said:

Well, maybe people on this forum don't react well to your negativity because the people that frequent these forums like the game. Does that make sense?

I mean, seriously.

Why did they take down the D1 forums? Same reason WotC stopped supporting 3.5 D&D. It's no longer a supported product. There is no incentive for a company to continue supporting a forum for an out-of-print game. That being said, there's nothing to stop any person from starting their own D1 community, as was done with HeroScape, and probably numerous other games.

What is that you hope to accomplish here? You troll by to see if anyone has realized how much the game sucks? I don't think that'll ever happen to me. I enjoy playing the game a great deal.

So… what? Are you hoping that if you complain loudly enough, FFG will stop supporting this game? There's only one thing that would accomplish that: poor sales.

Are you hoping that they're resurrect D1? If so, some kind of e-mail petition might do more.

What boggles me is that the people who are unsatisfied with this game continue to post in this forum as though their negativity will somehow catch to the rest of us.

Word!

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MasterBeastman said:

My use of the word crushing is allowed and intended. There have been two responses to me in this thread alone that add nothing to the conversation but whose sole intent was to shush me because I agreed with the OP.

I shushed you, not because you agreed with the OP, but because every post you make in these forums says the same thing and it's tiresome. it's not that I don't think you should be able to express your opinion (I do) or because I disagree with you (although I do), it's because when all I need to do to know what you're going to say is to see your username, what's the point?

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MasterBeastman said:

My use of the word crushing is allowed and intended. There have been two responses to me in this thread alone that add nothing to the conversation but whose sole intent was to shush me because I agreed with the OP.

Further, I had my copy of D2 at 6pm Saturday of the preview event. I played the game all that night (having read the rules many times prior to the session). By the second quest we played we had already housruled that monsters couldn't double move. The Overlord still won every encounter by simply not fighting the heroes. We felt like that ruined the spirit of Descent. So I was here Monday complaining about it.

Also, replace the word "Immersion" with the word "theme" and you're describing Descent. A big part of what I like about Descent is its fantasy theme. At no point, however, did I feel like I was in the world of Terrinoth and that something bad would happen if I didn't stop the Overlord. That would be immersion.

So, one of your main gripes about 2.0 is that the OL can win by not fighting the heroes. Granted, in some quests, the OL wins by accomplishing some task, and fighting the heroes may or may not make completing that task easier.

On the other hand, many, many 1.0 games were lost by the heroes because they spent too much time fighting the monsters. In many games, the heroes succeed by spreading out LOS so the OL can't spawn more monsters…thus, avoiding the fighting aspect of the game. And true, most 1.0 quests were won by the heroes when they fought and killed some boss monster, but given the damage heroes could deal with gold or even some silver weapons, fighting might not be the best term for what actually happens, and massacring might be the better descriptor.

In other words, you love a game where the heroes have every incentive to not fight the monsters, yet hate a game where the monsters are now given the same incentive.

To each their own, but this is one of the key aspects why I like and appreciate 2.0 over 1.0. It truly feels like a game, a contest now. And while you may not feel the immersion factor is present, I disagree. Within the context of the game, I very much feel as if there's a building plot the heroes are caught up in, and if they don't act to stop it, terrible things will happen.

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I started D&D in the late 70’s. And I still play it. I also play Mage knight occasionally. But what tops my list of the greatest games is Starfleet Battles, which I still play. I recently discovered the Descent games but what made me buy D2e instead Of D1e is that I wanted a game with quicker setup and in my down time at the fire department, between calls, we have something to do. I have not played D1e at all but I am really enjoying D2e. Well that’s just my 2 cents worth of an opinion.

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Thanks, I read all of the way through that. I disagree with him on some points, but he did a pretty good job of laying things out. I was thinking of buying one of the D&D Boardgames, but found them lacking in some respects. I don't have the time or inclination for full blown RPGs these days, and Descent 2E seemed to fit the niche I was looking for. I think I still would have bought the game even if I had read his review beforehand.

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I do think there is something to what MasterBeastman says about the OL not having any incentive to have the monsters fight the Heroes since they have a different objective. I've caught myself on a few occasions, as the OL (And now I feel bad for saying this since one of my group is on these forums, so Hi Arctacia), that I was forcing myself to have the monsters fight the heroes instead of just blazing to finish the objective and win before the heroes could do anything, which they could have done. Basically, I pulled punches to give my group a fighting chance.

But, I don't know if that is necessarily the rules of the game being faulty. I think the rules are fantastic. My disappointment lies with the quests and the campaigns. After progressing through the Act I quests I noticed something. They tended towards a race to the finish objective, which the OL has the greatest position to win (Castle Daerion for example. I won that in a short amount of time. That was kind of ridiculous.). We haven't reached Act II yet, still waiting to do the Interlude, so I don't know if it differs too much in those quests. I appreciate the varied mission objectives, but I think the OL still has the greatest chance of success against the heroes, even with heroes popping their abilities to try and mitigate some of that edge.

I would absolutely love to make my own custom campaign for this though, and that's something I've been toying with anyway. My overall opinion on D2 is favorable with some issues. I can't wait to see what the expansion adds whenever that comes out.

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svarun said:

I came across this review.. and it basically explains in detail… why i even started this topic in the first place…

http://boardgamegeek.com/thread/844153/kartigans-bullet-point-reviews-descent-journeys-in

I understand why D2 is not your cup of tea.
Thanks for sharing - a negative review is a usefull as a positive one, as it stimulates discernment.

In my case, I understand why D1 would not have been a blast as I expect D2 will be to me.
I am not opposing them, but speaking from my player's profile point of view: I simply cannot afford long term and regular gaming.
I certainly will go for a campaign, but will first try some isolated ecounters.
If my game partners like them, perhaps will I be able to go the full thing with those who have some perseverance…

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SnowcatAssassin said:

I would absolutely love to make my own custom campaign for this though, and that's something I've been toying with anyway.

Descent seems an inspiring system for fan-made quests and campaigns.

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svarun said:

I came across this review.. and it basically explains in detail… why i even started this topic in the first place…

http://boardgamegeek.com/thread/844153/kartigans-bullet-point-reviews-descent-journeys-in

Okay, so I read that, and I understand his point of view. Not every game is for everyone.

I still like D2, and my friends and I will continue to enjoy playing it.

I could explain why I disagree with several of the points made by both that article and you… but it strikes me as pointless. I'm not going to change your opinion, and you're not going to change mine… so…

I guess my point is that people who like this game, and people who dislike it, more often than not just need to agree to disagree (unless that dislike stems from a misunderstanding of the rules, in which case they might find they enjoy it more played properly. On the other hand, if you enjoy the game more played improperly, you'll welcome to that as well.)