Like every SW rpg line the game seems to try to push you into playing non pro Empire characters.

A shame. I think I'll skip it. More of the same.

Considering they did a Chaos Space Marine game I don't doubt we will see an Empire book down the line.

Darthvegeta800 said:

In what way have SWRPG lines pushed players into non-pro-Empire characters?

I think the Empire does most of that work for themselves, seeing as they are blatantly humanocentric and sexist, so if you're playing an Imperial character in the Rise of the Empire/Rebellion/New Republic Era you are probably going to be shoe-horned into being a human male.

This beta seems to be focused on Fringe campaigns, and that has certainly been a player favorite over the decades, but I wouldn't judge the book by its cover, proverbial or otherwise

The game is clearly set up for shades of grey style Han Solo or The Bounty hunters. I think the default character is Independent whith a range of grey morality.

If that's not what you want, I recomend waiting a few years. I doubt that playing the emperor's lackies is a super popular choice.

cetiken said:

Every time I've looked around for a Star Wars group, the majority of folks want to play Imperials. I can certainly get behind it myself.

That said, just let me play a Bounty Hunter and I'll be happy.

Darthvegeta800 said:

Well, since the Imperials committed mass genocide, discriminated against non-humans, and were just in general pricks, I'm strangely ok with playing a non-pro Empire character. I would bet you can play any type of character in the game however. But since you seem to have read it cover to cover already and made your decision…

Well I was hoping something closer to Warhammer Fantasy Roleplay. I'm hoping through previews I can see something. The only reason why I'm into Roleplaying is because Warhammer 3rd has all the abilities on cards(AC, Talents, Etc) I hate flipping and remembering it all. Give me cards!!

Darthvegeta800 said:

Darthvegeta800 said:

Come on, most mainstream RPGs (and video games, and fiction, and movies, etc etc) is about glorifying the Good Guys, who have decency and virtue and such on their side, you know that. And Star Wars is definitely mainstream. Especially when trying to sell a product on a large scale - I'm going to bet that a game which defaults to playing the Good Guys, with a Bad Guy game option maybe tacked on later, is going to have MUCH more mass appeal than a Bad Guy game with a Good Guy side-option. Esp when it comes to Star Wars. Not to mention that all the movies are from the Good Guys' point of view, and when people buy a game to play in a specific setting, they usually expect that game to share the movie/book/whatever's POV by default.

Did you honestly expect different? At least they're shaking it up a bit by making their first game focus on Scruffy-looking Rufians and Bounty Hunters instead of Rebel Alliance heroes again.

All that being said, I do think playing the Empire can be a blast, and have thoroughly enjoyed the Empire-centric games I've played. I esp like the interesting moral dilemmas that crop up - can a good wo/man serve the Empire? and what do they do when they discover the true depths of the Empire's brutality? Is the planetary destruction, and massacres, and non-human sentient enslavement worth the goal of galactic stability? and is that even the Emperor's true goal, or is he just a shriveled control freak?

And then there are those times when you don't even care about moral dilemmas, you just want to put on some Stormtrooper armor and blast things

I'm really wondering how difficult it'll be to turn NPCs into PC options. Are they going to have significantly different statlines and rules like WFRP 3E, or be something at least close to the PCs like DH & RT?

I'm really hoping these rumblings about special dice and cards isn't true.

I'm hoping for it to basically be Dark Heresy, but Star Wars.

Don't know about cards but the dice are true. At the very end of the description page it mention the special dice.

Plushy said:

I think the guys at FFG are wise enough not to use that clunky old system more than they absolutely "have to". I don't want WFRP3 in space either, but I would love for them to take some inspiration from modern "new wave" of indie RPGs. The dice pool mechanic certainly sounds like it's similar to WFRP3 but there's been no mention of cards.

As for the OP. I agree with the majority of replies. Playing as the bad guys in such huge and mainstream franchises such as Star Wars or Lord of the Rings probably won't happen (TIE Fighter being the exception that confirms the rule). I wouldn't be surprised if Lucas Arts even vetoed it if FFG proposed it. And to be honest I think the number of players who would like to play as the bad guys is very small (although over represented in forums such as this).

Hi:

I doubt there'll be an proEmpire game evah - it's like asking to glorify stereotypical evil. They're space nazis. I'll be repulsed to play such scum & villany.

&… George hates the imps.

L

Sure, there are always players who want to play the "bad guys." But I like Star Wars because it often blurs the line between "Good Guy Organization" and "Bad Guy Organization." I mean, sure you have the EMPIRE and the REBEL ALLIANCE. But inside that Empire are hard-working and honorable individuals who have bought into the ideal of Order and peace propagated by Palpatine, and maybe who disagree with the Tarkin doctrine and want to work inside the system to effect change (that is, until the Senate is disbanded and the Death Star is unveiled; then people start to come around). And then inside the Rebel Alliance you have individuals who would be invariably described as "evil" or "corrupt."

Anyway, Fringe campaigns are especially "blurry-lined," with bounty hunters, smugglers, and mercenaries operating on the wrong side of the law and often siding with whoever has the most credits. And sometimes—surprise—that's the Empire.

So who knows, your party might find themselves working for the highest bidder.

And hey, RPGs are all about playing the role you want to play: so even if an edition seems to be railroading you in a certain direction, all you gotta do is Re-skin, re-name, re-design a few key motivations, and voilà, you've switched sides.

West End Games did a decent job of opening up options for those who wanted to play as Imperials, whether in their own Imperial Sourcebook or many of the supplemental characters and situations in their Adventure Journal. WOTC never really seemed to do so, but WOTC was also often focused heavily on eras outside of the Classic Trilogy era, so Imperial play was (obviously) less of an option in the settings they were more often developing.

LETE said:

Black Crusade anyone? And how are pirates and scoundrels not stereotypical evil? No this is not intended to start a debate, just pointing out that in Star Wars Good and Evil are not always as obvious as black and white.

Not having the book I can't really say whether or not it's feasible to build Imperial characters, it all depends on what options are available when making characters, but it would be nice to see a book dedicated to the bad guys. The Hutts, Empire, Vong, Sith, etc. To ignore all that is to ignore the whole reason why good guys exist.

Ah dude, the Empire are like half Nazis and half British empire. You are supposed to hate them.

Maybe we need to add some Al-Queda/Califate elements to the Empire so people can more easily figure out what side they are supposed to be on…

I would love to run a game of Imperials, where the central thematic crux would be the players diminishing sense of Duty, and their growing sense of Doubt. I'd be willing to make a Doubt/Duty track to help facilitate how the PCs come to realization that they ARE the bad guys!!! MUA HAHAHAHA!!! And I'm a fan of enough boardgames that I don't mind if my RPGs feel a bit like a boardgame, so long as free will, consequences, fun and a coherent storyline are all there, pretty much.

That said, I don't think there would be much in the way of real support for playing Imps from the get go. Maybe later, like how the Saga Edition waited a dozen books or so until it spelled out an Imperial-centric campaign. On the other hand, I think there will be enough in the first book even to play some Imperial agents, independent assets working for Hutts on the side, or demoted Ensigns sent to the Outer Rim in the most boring outpost this side of the Hydian Way… I think those who are willing can pull off a couple Imp builds.

As for the Nazi-like baddies sentiment… sure, in movies, etc. That's how they're presented in 99.9999999% of the stuff, plus or minus x% exaggeration. But do the Imperials themselves believe they're so bad? How many people here have an idea what the Imperials media spin is like? They seriously paint themselves as the staunch defenders of order and civilization, making the Rebels sound like terrorists out to kill without concern.

Sure, we know the Imps are the baddies, and the Rebels are good incarnate and have the force on their side. But the people who play Imps probably like the idea of a bit more moral ambiguity in their stories, and I'm down for that once in a while. Some others are probably interested in playing Imps for their swank uniforms or serious heavy artillery budget. Can't begrudge that, we all like to shoot stuff in a game once in a while, right?

For those looking for some great Imperial good guys, read the Empire comic books. Tank Sunber, Luke's old friend from Tatooine, makes an incredible character, compelling and complex. When he has his crisis of doubt, followed by seeing Luke disguised as an Imperial and finally realizes he's a Rebel terrorist and is forced to choose sides, it's wonderful. Man, I hope they bring his story back eventually.

I guess the problem is that we now have a generation who have grown up without the Evil Empire of the USSR 'hanging over' us. So to them, the Empire looks a lot like the modern US and the Rebellion are straight up terrorists.

But damnit I spent so much of my youth being brainwashed in to thinking the plucky rebels against the overwhelming might of the Empire were the goodies that… (I mean, there was a definite moment when I realised… wait a minute - all the Imperials have British accents. I am British.

THEY ARE TALKING ABOUT ME!!!!!)

I guess I just still like the Rebellion.

Assassins Creed III might help people reconnect with their Rebels vs. the Empire roots. Although there I want to be the awesome Mighty Empire crushing the tax dodging terrorists….

AluminiumWolf said:

The line between a Rebel and terrorist is the point of view, isn't it? Who said that, some philosopher, or some hollywood guy?

I would totally play that version of AC3, btw!!! "Git back 'ere wit' our rightful money, ya bloated twit!" No, I don't think the British actually speak like that, no offence intended. Also, the new assassin protagonist is half British half Native American, isn't he? Not to rant off topic, mind you… Accountant's Creed?

Oh, and the innocent contractors on the Death Star who are blown up by Luke himself? They have families, y'know. All of a sudden, Imperial recruitment is up by degrees. Young men and women, alien volunteers in the rare circumstance, put on the uniform and take the oath in the hopes that they can get their hands on the culprits of this atrocity.

Really, I think there's a lot of fertile ground for playing as Imperials. But as a company putting out RPGs, it would never be the first line I'd put out there.

The difference between a terrorist and a freedom fighter used to be history. If you win you're a freedom fighter, if you lose your a terrorist. That said, modern terrorism targets civilians in order to try and influence political decision making, freedom fighters only target military objectives, but use non standard tactics.

It is mildly interesting that because of a changes in the geopolitical situation a setting intended to have very black and white villains and heroes now seems a bit more nuanced.

I'd certainly be tempted to have, say, if the Rebels are sitting around in their Secret Base plotting sedition, the Empire suddenly assassinates them with a hellfire missile fired from a predator drone.

Or if they dress up as Imperials to infiltrate a base, the news say things like 'Imperial Soldiers killed by insurgents dressed in Army uniforms'.

Or show what REALLY happens when an untrained farmboy armed with his fathers blaster goes up against the well drilled and equipped Stormtrooper regulars of the Empire.

Or show Stormtroopers posing for holos urinating on dead rebels. Or recreate the infamous pictures from Abu-Ghraib with Stormtroopers standing in for Lynndie England.

Or if the rebels get captured, have them waterboarded and sent to Space Guantanamo Bay.

Or have the guys sent after the Rebels look very much like Sam Fisher from Splinter Cell (

And, of course, the Imps get a Space AC130 gunship to rain death upon the insurgents!

Plushy said:

Even with the proofreading (or lack thereof)?

oStRiCh_RaGe said:

Hiyas!

You're comparing apples & oranges. GW & George Lucas are complete opposites (completely different companies) except that they all want your credits.

The W40K grimdark is quite suited for games like Black Crusade. The Star Wars franchise is positively 100% antiEmpire/dark side. George has stated this a zillion times. For starters SW is based in Flash Gordon, et al., where the good guys (most of them clichés before the word), are always right & will triumph in the end, vs. the bad guys who will always lose in the end (& are despicable, vile & cowardly, just to say a few adjectives), no matter what. It's like saying to Alex Raymond "why can't there be a way to play the evil Ming-thugs?"; or - to make it more simple - to Tolkien: "why aren't there any playable Orcs/Balrogs in you game options, Mr. T?"; they're just eeevil.

L

Um, I have my WotC Dark Side book on the shelf, and the Saga Edition supplement Galaxy at War gave an Imperial campaign write-up, both officially licensed and all. Oh, and I have a few issues of the short lived SW Gamer magazine, which included at least one Dark Side adventure in there.

Granted, those d20 games had rules for the Dark Side that amounted to "if you go ALL the way to the Dark Side, I have to take away your character." That can be ignored, which I've seen a couple times. I think it's funner to skirt the edge of the Dark Side, anyways. Full on extremism gets old quick.

@AluminumWolf wow, man. No holds barred, huh? I'm not sure whether to laugh or cry. Comedy and tragedy, huh?