Antistone said:

I would like to suggest that questions be discussed in other threads before being added to this one, lest the thread be clogged up with things that have already been answered.

Monkeys: JitD rules, page 16: "A monkey can move up to 5 spaces on the hero’s turn, but cannot take any movement actions." (emphasis added) However, activating a glyph is not actually a movement action, and I think when this was discussed before, the consensus was that monkeys could still activate glyphs.

snip

I maintain the question regarding the monkey´s movement actions - boiling down to "Is an action which costs zero MP still a movement action (could a webbed hero moved by Telekinesis onto a moneypile pick it up on his turn)?" - as I wrote I had sent that question in but never got a response. I never saw that discussion earlier (and I have been around here and in the old forums for quite some time) and am not aware of a consensus as you wrote.

The wording is "Cannot take movement actions" So whether they burn fatigue or not they can't do anything on that chart. The arguement was should that include 0 cost items or not.

Corbon, you're thinking of a "move half-action" from AoD, not a "movement action." I know, fairly poor choice of terminology.

A "movement action" is one of the special things you can do with MP, listed in the table on page 16 of the JitD rulebook, such as "drink a potion" or "open or close a door."

The movement actions that cost 0 MP have a notation in the table marked "can be performed even with no movement." So as to whether you can do them while webbed, I think the answer would be "yes." Web prohibits you from spending MP, not from taking movement actions, so if the action can specifically be done even when you have no MP to spend, I think it's fair game.

But can you do them while you're a monkey? I say no. Why? Because the rules specifically say that monkeys cannot perform movement actions. And I see no reason that these would be considered "not movement actions" just because they have a cost of zero. You can still choose to do them or not and they're listed in the table of movement actions; I see nothing in the rulebook that would even hint that they are not considered movement actions, and an awful lot implying that they are.

Neostrider said:

Ahhh, the Movement chart.

It is possible that it was the intent that the monkey cannot perform any task on the chart. That would include the zero cost tasks.

However, despite the heading of that section being Movement Actions, the chart on page 16 refers to tasks rather than actions. The Heading covers things you can do in a Movement Action (one of your 2 half actions) in addition to simply moving your figure. Given that it has been explicitly clarified that you can drink a potion using fatigue during a Battle Action (ie, you don't have to have a Move Action in order to spend MP on the tasks in the chart), the wording is ambiguous at best.

A familiar cannot perform any movement actions (pg 14). Using stairs to move between levels is a task from the chart. Are you suggesting that familiars may not use the stairs to move to the next level?

I think it is clear that they monkey can use fatigue to do any task from the chart that it is not specifically excluded from. It just doesn't get any MP 'free' (it can move spaces instead) because it can't do Movement (or any) actions. If the cost of doing a task is zero fatigue, the monkey can always pay zero fatigue to do the task.

Antistone said:

Yes I am. Its another glorious example of inconsistent wording. Its either inconsistent wording one way (which means yes you can) or another way (no you can't).

I still think the monkey can do these actions as explained in another post. They are movement tasks. You can do them during a movement action. It does not say you are restricted to doing them during a Movement action. There are explicit and implicit examples doing tasks from this chart while not doing a movement action.

Corbon said:

Despite the screwiness of familiars not being allowed to use staircases I have to change my tune. I agree, you cannot do anything from the Task Chart as a monkey.That would definitely include the zero-cost items. Better just use your fatigue for moving faster...

EDIT: ok, haha you found it.

EDIT 2: You know, familiars cannot be prevented from following their masters due to the Map construction or overlord ploys, so they actually are allowed to perform the movement actions "Climb out of pit" and "Walk up and down staircase". I'd say it's worth it to ask for a redefinition of movement actions.

Thundercles said:

lol, amen.

They just gone through a lot of editions and new abilities and we're beginning to reach critical mass where they start inadvertantly using the same words over and over again because there's only so many ways to say movement or ability or action. Anyone feel like writing a big old glossary of Descent and submit it to get the good ol'Kevin thumbs up to make it canon?

Sadly, I'm a bit too busy to do a whole write up.

I vote for Descent 2.0

Unless I'm greatly mistaken, the term "movement action" does not refer to anything other than that chart in the entirety of JitD; they just confused things when they started talking about "movement half-actions" in AoD so that they could add the "concentrate" half-action--and even in AoD, I believe that's always referred to as a "half-action," not an "action". So it would be really, really bizarre if the restriction "you cannot perform movement actions" referred to something other than that table, especially in JitD. And especially because I don't think the restriction "you cannot perform movement half-actions" wouldn't actually prohibit running or advancing.

And yes, that implies that monkeys can't use stairs. Which is a little weird, but not necessarily a problem. The part where familiars can't use stairs is definitely a problem, though, so stairs probably need to be taken off that list.