Necrozius: I have a quick question regarding the Alternative Starting package for Tech Priests: the Malygrisian Heresy.

It states as a drawback that you are "Unhinged" and start your character with 1d5 insanity points.

Here's the rub: Unhinged, on the Insanity and Madness in the Core Rulebook chart means that you've accrued 60 Insanity points, and that your Disorder is now at the half-way point (between Minor and Major).

So, if you create a character with this background package, you start off with an actual Disorder , but only 1d5 Insanity points?

Is this correct? It seems a bit extreme to me.

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Wu Ming: The basic confusion/ argument/ question is thus: can a (N)PC use Manuveur to basically 'shoot' while in Melee by having say a Shot Gun (with or without a Melee attachment) and then using Man. to make the oposed WS test and then move their opponet out of Melee with them (Move action) then BAM! shoot at them since they are no longer in Melee (and are now likely at PB / Short Range.)

Basic Break Down of Question re: Man. which were raised previously, is the person forced to leave count as having used Disengaged? (meaning they did not Flee?) or do they count as Fleeing and hence get to be attacked for free as they Flee. Is the use of a Melee weapon required to use Maneuvre, or can an unarmed / naked Acolyte use Man against the SM Vetern Captain with the Power Sword and Bolt Pistol? And can you follow up a sucessful Man. Action by Firing at the person moved out of melee with you?

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Coops: Should the Carnodon really not have a strength minimum, It's got hand cannon stats and even semi auto but it could just be much better built to absorb recoil.

And the Cyber mastif needs double team, it's a dog after all AND it's been programmed to work with Arbites.

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Redeucer: Things I noticed while compiling:

IH: Not sure why, but under Sororitas Elohiem rank Silent Move requires Pure Faith.

DH: In Scum, Both Cutter and Gandlord have Melee Weapon Training (Power) talent.

I'll see if I can pull up the other inconsistencies I found later. These are the two I remember

The entry for the Beetle Tent IH p. 152, 154 There is no explanation on the value (in APs or grade Primitive ect.) for the Extra Armour Upgrade. As mentiond in the thread here.

Luminen Blast

- What is the range profile of Luminen Blast? I assume Luminen Blast should follow all normal rules for shooting. The text says that you may target "a single target within 10 metres". This gives the impression the 10 metres mentioned is actually the maximum Extreme Range of the Blast and all other range brackets should be calculated based on this. Is this correct?

- What is the AP value of the Blast?

- Does Luminen Blast benefit from relevant talents and skills pertaining to shooting attacks ( eg. Mighty Shot , Crack Shot etc. )?

Luminen Shock

- If using the Shock as part of a Grapple, how do you determine the hit location? Roll dice or automatically hit the opponents Body?

- What is the AP value of the Shock?

- Does Luminen Shock count as a Melee weapon in regards to talents and skills pertaining to melee attacks ( eg. Crushing Blow, Precise Blow etc. )?

- Both Luminen Blast and Shock use the same power source ( Electoo Inductor+Potentia Coil ) but have different damage profiles. Blast does D+(WP bonus) and Shock D+3. Is this intensional?

DH: Under Scum, should Shark Inquiry +10 be Inquiry +20 since Fixer has Inquiry +10?

Here are some more questions I ran across last night going through the skill list.

All from Inquisitor's Handbook:

Black Priest lists Forbidden Lore (Cults) for both 100 and 200. Should the second one be Forbidden Lore (Cults) +10?

Legate Investigator has Ciphers (Inquisition) should this be Ciphers (Acolyte)?

Moritat Reaper has a Meditation skill. Should that be Medicae?

Templar Calix has a skill listed as Meditation +10. Should this be Medicae +10?

Warden/Divisio Immoralis lists the Forbidden Lore (Occult), shouldn't this be Scholastic Lore (Occult)?

More when I get through all the Talents.

Psychic powers

- What are the Penetration values of the following Psychic powers: Bio-Lightnin g, Fire Bol t, Fire Storm , Force Barrag e and Force Bol t?

Edit on question about Luminen Blast/Shock above ( either I am blind or the system lacks a normal edit function? )

- "AP" should read "Penetration"

( EDIT: Ah, here it is. But since I can´t edit my old post there seems to be some weird time limit involved. )

The errata actually created a new problem.

You added the Peer (Military) to the Guard Captain. But that creates a problem with the Good Reputation (Imperial Guard) talent that you later added for Guard Commander. The Good Reputation (Imperial Guard) requires Peer (Imperial Guard) but there is no Peer (Imperial Guard) talent anywhere in the Guard advancement tables.

I hate this wonky forum.

I checked and the errata and it reads as follows:

“Making a Focus Power Action is the psychic equivalent of a Standard Attack Action , and counts as such for purposes of determining what else a psyker can do in a round. Therefore, a psyker who uses a Half Action power cannot make another Half Action Standard Attack on the same round. A Psyker may manifest only one ability per Round with the exception of the Resist Possession power. A Psyker is required to roll at least one die to manifest an ability.”

Although the second sentence reads " Therefore, a psyker who uses a Half Action power cannot make another Half Action Standard Attack on the same round. " The first sentence which equates the Focus Power Action (needed to use ANY and ALL psychic powers) with a Standard Attack action means that a psyker may NEVER , according to this errata, make any attack durring the round in which they have manifested a Power.

I think the players who came up with this errat meant to simply 'nerf' the Super Powered and Game Breaking Unantural Aim , which could have more easily and elegently been handled by making the power a Full Action rather than a Half Action (although I'd still ingnore that 'errata' as well. ) What has been done though is they've made Precognitive Strike a completely usesless power (unless you're only trying to get it for the Divination Mastery.)

With the new errata in effect Precognitive Strike becomes a Full Action Aim except the aim would not incur the risk of faliure, or Perils. A Full Action Aim grants a +20 bonus to your next melee or ranged attack at the cost of esentially giving up the chance to attack that round. Under errata Precognitive Strike grants the exact same +20 Bonus, has a Threshold of 17, might incur a Perils of the Warp, Counts as a Standard Attack (thus turning a power that is listed as a Free Action into a de facto Attack which robbs the psyker of an attack.)

However to be fair I must point out that their are some advanteges that might possibly make Precognitive Strike a little better than the Full Action Aim which are the following:

• The +20 Bonus is to Tests 'Untill the end of your next turn...' thus you gain +20 to Parries made and would still retain your single Reaction.
• You may engage in another Half Action BEFORE you strike in the following round although besides using the Aim Half Action *which would net you a +30 to hit) I can fail to think of anything eles you might want to do; unlike the Aim Full Action which requires you to imeadtely attack or loose the bonus.

Despite these advantages I still feel the Power gets a serious reduction in its usefulness then it previously held, but then again it might have been intentially to turn one of the only combat applicable Divination Powers into a slightly better version of a basic Action anyone can perform.

Some other notes regarding this errata:

• Divine Shot unless itself errataed can not now be used as there is nothing that states 'your next shot' nor reads 'until end of your next turn' nor is the power sustainable and thus 'ends' at the the end of the round.
• The Biomancer Power Seal Wounds cannot be used in the same round that the Psyker Attacked thus greatly limmiting its usefulness in actual combat. (But this is probly intentially as its threshold was doubled under the errata.)
• The Telekine Power Catch Projectiles which is a Reaction must now be manifested a round before you expect to catch said projectiles OR must be used to before you attack, if you've attacked first or already attacked in a round you now may not use this Power which greatly inhibits its usefulness and seems counter intuitive.
• Any Power which is listed as a Free Action looses its 'versiltilty' as you must now eithier manifest a round before you expect to need it (if its sustainable) or must withold from attacking in a round you might want to use it in as attacking would negate your abilty to use that 'Free Action'.

I think this particular aspect of the errata was a bit 'knee jerk' and not particually though out as much as it could have been and its inclusion would casue far more problems in my games than it would fix or adress. It seems ver punitive to those who have chosen to play a psyker in an attempt to fix a problem that I am not even aware of (unless its just the game breaking überness of Unatural Aim -- which should probly just be removed altogether from the game as its probly the single most abused occrence in the entire system.)

Did someone do the deja vu power on me?

This thread is where issues to be covered in future errata will be drawn from (hopefully) according to Ross so I was reposting the concerns with the Focus Power = Standard Attack problem so eithier he or whoever will be working on the next errata might see them. And the fourms are all buggered and kept fragging my post.

Aajav-Khan said:

Why would you make that assumption? Ranged weapons work like that, yes, but damaging psychic powers and other effects of that kind (some of which roll to hit as well) don't - they have a maximum range, and that's it, with no range categories needed.

Aajav-Khan said:

My other question here would be:

Why do you assume that all of the above have Pen values? Would it not be perhaps more rational to assume that if no Pen value is listed, then there is no Pen value?

N0-1_H3r3 said:

You are missing the point. "No mentioned Pen-value = Pen 0" would be a nice general rule but since this is not the case in the books, we can´t work on that assumption. For the sake of concistency and clarity anything that can deal damage ( weapon/psychic power/act of the God-Emperor ) should have a Pen-value included in order avoid ambiguity.

So far we have played with house rules that give Luminem attacks Pen 0.But they are just that: house rules.

N0-1_H3r3 said:

The problem is that there really are two distinct methods for resolving "shooting attacks". The first is for "normal" shooting with rifles, pistols etc. and the second for the "not-so-normal" like certain psychic powers. The gist is that these special cases are embedded individually within the descriptions of the relevant powers/traits and there isn´t a concsice summary about their relation to the normal shooting rules. We´ve had a lot of confusion regarding these special cases with both players and GM´s asking basically the same questions over and over again ( Do I calculate range brackets? How do I establish the hit location? What parts of the shooting rules apply if any? ) when the resident psyker starts tossing fireballs from his hand towards the enemy standing 11meters away.

To put it short: a summary explaining that certain powers are an exception to normal shooting rules ( with examples ) would have been nice to avoid confusion. Whether I shoot the enemy with a pistol or fling a fireball at him my first natural instinct is to check the rules for...well shootin g.

Aajav-Khan said:

Can you give an example where no mentioned Pen-value doesn't = 0? I've always operated under the assumption that if it doesn't tell you something has a pen, then it doesn't. Just like if a psychic power is supposed to ignore armor and/or toughness it will mention it in the power's description.

Also, most ranged psychic attacks use WP instead of BS and don't have range increments (I believe an errata covered this, I could be wrong but I read it somewhere). Hit location is determined by the roll like usual, if its an attack like firestorm that doesn't require a roll, either the gm or the player can roll for a hit location.