Well it looks like we will have to take up the slack at Liber Fanatica
News about WFRP at Gen Con..?
But not from ffg.
ragnar63 said:
Yeah its Jay Little, but i suspect that he has been working on the Star Wars RPG not WFRP.
Jay missed some time after his heart attack last year, then designed the X-Wing minis game. Presumably he was also involved in Edge of the Empire development too. I only glimpsed him briefly in the crowd today while he was running an EotE demo, so we didn't have a chance to talk.
I always understood that Daniel Lovat Clark was more of a system designer than a line manager anyway (someone else edited TEW3e). Apparently Ross Watson is no longer line manager for the 40K RPGs either (he was a special guest at the seminar, not a presenter).
Couple of things.
Jay Little did exude enthusiasm in the video of him talking about system and it is a shame if that does not come from current speakers for the line, whether it was heart-felt or good sales.
They willl generally go where the money is, in terms of return on effort. If the WFRP line does not generate enough sales, it will whither.
But, I would not get too depressed just yet. At least one poster has said there are groups play testing stuff under non-disclosure agreements. My own experience of communications in large organizations is that a bizarre logic leads to saying less than could be said. There is the message of the day, in this case immediate releases that are to be promoted, and saying anything else is seen as detracting from it. This really should not be applied in a multiple-line field and FFG really should understand that keeping interest and generating new sales means putting out more hints of what is to come even if things are 6 or 12 months off. For example, launching the Enemy Within campaign should be like a relaunch of whole system to attract new players.
I do love the system and would try to keep playing despite lack of official support. There are indeed so many key things missing such as more elf material, and the Empire's next door neighbours that fans should share theIr approaches to.
Whether Fantasy Flight Games releases another expansion or not is of little consequence. Liber Fanatica has been safeguarding Warhammer for quite some time now.
And I heard about this little retroclone/loveletter to Warhammer Fantasy Roleplay called ZWEIHÄNDER Grim & Perilous. 
valvorik said:
But, I would not get too depressed just yet. At least one poster has said there are groups play testing stuff under non-disclosure agreements. My own experience of communications in large organizations is that a bizarre logic leads to saying less than could be said. There is the message of the day, in this case immediate releases that are to be promoted, and saying anything else is seen as detracting from it.
One thing Daniel did say was that FFG's new policy is to not announce future products very far in advance, in order to avoid getting peoples' hopes up in case it doesn't pan out.
korknadel said:
But not from ffg.
Don't know about you but I can't afford to pay GW's license fee. That doesn't mean we cannot come up with new stuff, as long as we do not make money from it.
Thats fine Jude, but the release schedule for WFRP this year is so slow that we need to have at least a glimpse at possible ideas. Assuming that The Enemy Within comes out this year, what can we expect next, assuming anything is due at all. The release schedule for WH40KRPG's is a lot faster, with a lot of content.
Herr Arnulfe said:
valvorik said:
But, I would not get too depressed just yet. At least one poster has said there are groups play testing stuff under non-disclosure agreements. My own experience of communications in large organizations is that a bizarre logic leads to saying less than could be said. There is the message of the day, in this case immediate releases that are to be promoted, and saying anything else is seen as detracting from it.
One thing Daniel did say was that FFG's new policy is to not announce future products very far in advance, in order to avoid getting peoples' hopes up in case it doesn't pan out.
Yes but they could say at least what is comming if it's comming after The Enemy Within. They could give us a hint or something to hold on. And very far can only mean thet this year we will see only TEW and nothing more.
All this situation reminds me of the time when FFG got the licence. Those were times when 2nd edition was and they were asked if they will continue the line and they said yes. But did not said that this mean going to a new edition. So can this mean that this edition will end and we will see the 3.5 edition or 4th? This would confirm the rumours that came out by the end of 2011 about playtests of a new edition of the game. The edition that would use custom dice without the cards and the same type of publishing line like W40K RPG. So with books that would cover some fragments of the universum. The same thing that FFG does for Star Wars RPG now. It looks like this type of publishing rpg is more popular then the way WFRP 3e is. People would rather have books and pen&paper then card, tokens and all this stuff. Personaly I would not take offence when they would do that. Or all this can mean that we are going to be getting 1 or 2 expansions a year for this one?
I don't know how the future of WFRP is looking out and what FFG is planing and that is frustrating. Becouse there is still so much to cover like elves, skaven. So like many of You i would just like to know what FFG is planing for WFRP.
At the moment I am still waiting for my Shallya POD expansion I ordered all the way back in June. I have no clue why this hasn't been sent out to me yet, or if it is a sign of things to come with regards to WFRP. Maybe I am just worrying too much.
Here's to hoping the line is not completely dead. :/
Wow, since June, have you contacted them about it. For all the negativity here, I have found customer service great and my pods always showed up pronto.
valvorik said:
Wow, since June, have you contacted them about it. For all the negativity here, I have found customer service great and my pods always showed up pronto.
Well it's through Maelstrom Games, but they're saying they can't get them at the moment. I got my other PoDs part shipped due to this. I live in Denmark so it's too expensive with taxes and fees when ordering from the US.
Beren Eoath said:
Yes but they could say at least what is comming if it's comming after The Enemy Within. They could give us a hint or something to hold on. And very far can only mean thet this year we will see only TEW and nothing more.
That would kind of defeat the point of the policy. They don't give out information until they're sure of it in case something goes wrong.
Sarbaek said:
valvorik said:
Wow, since June, have you contacted them about it. For all the negativity here, I have found customer service great and my pods always showed up pronto.
Well it's through Maelstrom Games, but they're saying they can't get them at the moment. I got my other PoDs part shipped due to this. I live in Denmark so it's too expensive with taxes and fees when ordering from the US.
You could try ordering it from SF-bokhandeln (swedish gamestore), or, depending on where you live in Denmark even go to Malmö and pick one up.
At this point, most of the opinions expressed in this thread are pure speculation. We're basing our assumptions on a lack of evidence, and a lack absence of evidence is NOT evidence of absence.
That being said, I'd like to throw my own wild speculation hat into the ring and say that I DON'T think that Fantasy Flight is abandoning the Warhammer Fantasy Roleplay line whole-cloth. At the most extreme we MAY (big may) see a change in the way the game is presented in the future (less bits and bobbles), but this would runner counter to what was states after the hardcovers were released, which was something to the effect of …"all future releases will follow the boxed set method (i.e. cards, chits, and "splat" books).
I do personally feel it to be somewhat irresponsible of the FF WFRP team to continue to pour money into including extra tracking counters, and the like with each expansion…which is why I'm guessing that they MAY (again, BIG may) change the format of future expansions to not include so much superfluous stuff…I mean, do I REALLY need another couple dozen tracking tokens with my expansion? I'm wondering if the upcoming Enemy Within campaign will be the first to change up it's component formation, perhaps ONLY including accessories that are RELEVANT to the expansion (handouts, maps, location cards, NPC cards, etc), while leaving out the "junk" (extra tracking tokens and the like)…perhaps allowing any that need such items to purchase them via POD orders??? Now there's an idea.
At the EXTREME end of speculation , we MAY (….see above) see a complete reversal of the previous release formats and a move to a pseudo 3.5 edition that will be more in line with the hardcovers format…perhaps with supplemental accessories (tokens, cards, etc) being made available as "vault" boxes OR as POD orders.
The above speculation is really more a "wish list" than anything else…as in…IF Fantasy Flight decides to change things up in the near future…I hope they choose one of the above methods.
So that's my two cents.
GK
One thing that points to the line possibly ending is the low stock/out of stock on everything WFRP 3rd on Amazon. They may not be replacing stock on their items, and just waiting for the already printed products to start drying up. Hopefully some reprints/restocks are coming, but the older products may already be on their final printing, and not be replaced once they are sold. This does scare me a bit, because I still have boxes to buy, and I don't want to pay inflated prices on them if they are all out of stock.
Other than that, for me personally, if they are ceasing development/production on WFRP 3rd, I hope it is not because they are releasing a new edition. I like 3rd a lot, and it would be nice to eventually get everything for it. A few more products would be great, but there really is a pretty good amount of material present. With the exception of the "Elf box", they have the basics covered. Expansions for each of the main types of characters/Chaos Powers, as well as a decent amount of modules.
Thumbs up Goblynking. It is speculation, though FFG should be doing more to dispel it. Confidence in future of a line is important to current sales.
I just spoke with two more people who went to gencon. They got the same runarounds. "We're a boardgame company..not an rpg company." "Who's Graeme Davis?" "We don't participate on our forums for WFRP." "Who's in charge of WFRP..uh, I'm not sure, let me check on that for you…"
Essentially both guys told me that FFG is just sitting on the license and doesn't know what to do with it, and certainly aren't fans of it; and have no intention of throwing us any bones whatsoever. That all kinda kills it for me. It's a lot like the monkey experiment..and all we get is the wire model with milk, but no fur: ~'I want the furred model'
Lol I hear even the slave-monkeys in Skavenblight get the furred version
Emirikol said:
I just spoke with two more people who went to gencon. They got the same runarounds. "We're a boardgame company..not an rpg company." "Who's Graeme Davis?" "We don't participate on our forums for WFRP." "Who's in charge of WFRP..uh, I'm not sure, let me check on that for you…"
Essentially both guys told me that FFG is just sitting on the license and doesn't know what to do with it, and certainly aren't fans of it; and have no intention of throwing us any bones whatsoever. That all kinda kills it for me. It's a lot like the monkey experiment..and all we get is the wire model with milk, but no fur: ~'I want the furred model'
So I've gone the FFG Event Center in MN every Friday this summer, and I've gotten to know a few of the developers who show up there sometimes. The ones I've talked to were very enthusiastic about WFRP, so there's some additional anecdotal evidence for you. What I've picked up talking to them is that the lack participation on the forums is 1) to keep up internal moral and 2) to prevent cross chatter about products. Regarding 1) apparently some forum interactions with developers have been less than civil and caused pretty serious issues, which likely influenced the current policy. As for 2), this is standard in the entertainment industry. You may not like it, but it is here to stay.
So I wouldn't read too much into anything regarding the future of WFRP. That's my 2 cents anyways.
illathid said:
Emirikol said:
I just spoke with two more people who went to gencon. They got the same runarounds. "We're a boardgame company..not an rpg company." "Who's Graeme Davis?" "We don't participate on our forums for WFRP." "Who's in charge of WFRP..uh, I'm not sure, let me check on that for you…"
Essentially both guys told me that FFG is just sitting on the license and doesn't know what to do with it, and certainly aren't fans of it; and have no intention of throwing us any bones whatsoever. That all kinda kills it for me. It's a lot like the monkey experiment..and all we get is the wire model with milk, but no fur: ~'I want the furred model'
So I've gone the FFG Event Center in MN every Friday this summer, and I've gotten to know a few of the developers who show up there sometimes. The ones I've talked to were very enthusiastic about WFRP, so there's some additional anecdotal evidence for you. What I've picked up talking to them is that the lack participation on the forums is 1) to keep up internal moral and 2) to prevent cross chatter about products. Regarding 1) apparently some forum interactions with developers have been less than civil and caused pretty serious issues, which likely influenced the current policy. As for 2), this is standard in the entertainment industry. You may not like it, but it is here to stay.
So I wouldn't read too much into anything regarding the future of WFRP. That's my 2 cents anyways.
Fair comment about your experiences.
However the comment about 2 above is wrong for most of the RPG industry, though it may be true for TV and Film. Mongoose for Traveller, Paizo for Pathfinder, and Catalyst Games for Battletech, to name but a few, all have at least some of their writers interacting with the customers on the forums. Its called good customer relations. If a customer gets abusive then they are banned from the site, its not that difficult. No different from being escorted from a shop by security if you are abusive to the staff.
The most pertinent comment from Jay above was the "We're a boardgame company..not an rpg company." FFG will hang onto the license while they are making money from the boardgame aspects of the genre. The roleplaying game aspects are an incidental bonus I suspect, so if WFRP desn't make enough money to warrant further development then they won't.
I will be interested to see where they have gone with the Star Wars RPG, as I suspect that if they do anything more with WFRP it will be as a 3.5 version closer to the Star War RPG.
To Goblynking, yes it is all speculation because that is all we have to go on. Assuming that the Enemy Within comes out before the end of the year, when is the next bit coming out, christmas next year. Old game systems are getting updated all the time, I see there is a new HARP system coming out soon, and Zweihander should be out before the end of the year. If FFG are not careful, they will not have an audience to publish to, unless they interact more and provide some bones of information. I hate this speculation, but I hate even more the sense of doom that presently hangs over the system, and not just because of us.
ragnar63 said:
However the comment about 2 above is wrong for most of the RPG industry, though it may be true for TV and Film. Mongoose for Traveller, Paizo for Pathfinder, and Catalyst Games for Battletech, to name but a few, all have at least some of their writers interacting with the customers on the forums. Its called good customer relations.
No, it's called bad customer relations, for the most part. If a company wants to interact with its customers on forums then it should invest in a professional to deal with such interactions. Plenty of RPG companies have been burned by amateurish communication such as you list above.
macd21 said:
ragnar63 said:
However the comment about 2 above is wrong for most of the RPG industry, though it may be true for TV and Film. Mongoose for Traveller, Paizo for Pathfinder, and Catalyst Games for Battletech, to name but a few, all have at least some of their writers interacting with the customers on the forums. Its called good customer relations.
No, it's called bad customer relations, for the most part. If a company wants to interact with its customers on forums then it should invest in a professional to deal with such interactions. Plenty of RPG companies have been burned by amateurish communication such as you list above.
Only if the professional knows what they are talking about. A PR wonk with little or no knowledge of RPG's will annoy the client base far quicker.
I don't so much care that there is nobody in this forum, although that's a very sorry fact. But I am pissed that they decided that the player's of WFRP don't deserve any new announcements, previews, development reports and stuff. There is no news since May! Sorry, but that is unaccaptable for a game that so depends on supplements. Thos so called policy not to talk about planned products in advance is, pardon my french, crap. The new TEW was announced on 1st of March. Since this module isn't to be expected before September, that's at least six months in advance. So when they cannot due to their so called policy announce something beyond TEW, that means, that there isn't anything planned until at least February 2013. If TEW is going to be released this year, we only have two supplements in 2012 and four PoD-Sets of cards. That's not much, and it looks like there will be even less in 2013 since there are no further announcements.
If they are really working on new stuff or even a new edition of the game, they don't seem to understand roleplayers at all. Because if they did, they would feed us with some information or at least some teasers. Because that's what roleplayers need, according to myswelf and my experience in the internet.
With apologies to Goblynking I am going to do some 'wild' speculating;
With two years left on their license and assuming that WFRP is not dead and buried when or if the Enemy Within comes out, here is my speculation.
This hiatus reminds me of the hiatus after Shades Of Empire and the Career Handbook came out for Second Edition, and Third Edition starting.
It is not beyond imagining that they could be developing Edition 3.5 or 4 alongside the Star Wars RPG, using all the same systems to slim down and de-counter the 3rd edition. The playtesting of Star Wars beta could be doing the bulk of the job for them. Also if the feedback from Star Wars beta is not good, they can change tack with WFRP without anybody knowing.
On a final cynical note, it would make sense if they delayed The Enemy Within so that it could be released at the same time as WFRP 3.5, having been modified to fit the new system rather than dragging out the old. It would also save time and money on developing a new campaign for the new system.
Just speculation I know, but it fits the facts as we know them, ie nothing.
I love me some wild speculation.
I'll ask this though, how does such a stratagy reflect past practices with RPGs at FFG. Is dark herasy rereleased updated to rogue trader rules? What sense does it make to release a new/revamped WFRP within two years out from the potential loss of the license?