Sad to read, no new cycle with "Saga" Expansion!

Cut From FFG Facebook

…
* Patrick Bergin "Well this is a "Saga" Expansion, not deluxe, so not necessarily. Furthermore, it remains to be seen whether there will be a related cycle following its release (a la Khazad-Dum/Dwarrowdelf) or not."

…

* Fantasy Flight Games "Patrick, there are currently no announced plans for a related cycle as with Khazad-Dum/Dwarrowdelf. And Matthew, it will be available at retailers on 8/17, as well as Gen Con. Thanks for the questions!"

interesting, but as others have pointed out:

Warhammer: 6 cycles, only 3 deluxe expansions

COC: 7 cycles, 3 deluxe expansions

AGOT: 8 deluxe (two for introducing new houses), 9 cycles

On top of that, there is no deluxe expansion between the current cycle of AGOT and the new cycle they just previewed coming out next.

So, it's really an incorrect assumption of the LOTR community to infer that the Core/Cycle/Deluxe/Cycle pattern is one that will hold. If their other games are any indication, this is not a set pattern and is subject to change.

As such, it seems like we are getting two saga expansions and then probably another deluxe after that or just a regular cycle that uses older encounter cards. Either way, unless there is an announcement at GenCon, we probably wont know much until after the release of the first Saga expansion.

When they say no "announced" plans, it makes me think they are maybe just keeping it secret for now. Wishful thinking?

perhaps wishful thinking ……i need my fix wah…

It seems to me like releasing a cycle to correspond with the saga expansion would kind of contradict their initial explanation of the "saga expansion", especially if you go back and read the initial announcement for the Hobbit boxes. But then again, if they don't do a cycle for the Hobbit I don't know what they will base a cycle off of for next year… Unless FFG has a ton of unannounced stuff up their sleeve

perhaps we shall know more after tonight's preview monday (crosses fingers)

richsabre said:

Either that, or they're saving the best at Gen Con this week.

I promised to save my doomsaying until after gencon. Let's hope we know a lot more one week from now.

Bohemond said:

I think it is pretty clear this is 2. . (some said three but I am sure I read it was 2) .. anyway 2 stand alone expansions that create a self contained quest chain. I would be super surprised if we see a cycle as well, and equally surprised if we see the "hobbit" sphere ever again. This feel to me like a "board game" type expansion to pull players that own the core and are not avid collectors.

My guess is we will see a completely different unrelated cycle. Though it is my hope that the entire cycle monthly pack idea is dropped compleatly like they are doing in CoC and I think in the other LCGs

booored said:

only COC is changing, the rest are still monthly.

Dain Ironfoot said:

ahh fair enough… I only really follow this and CoC, but soon netrunner.. so excited for that game

booored said:

perhaps i should have added "as far as we know" -- FFG was clear in the COC article that the switch to every 4 months was only for COC but that doesn't mean they aren't planning it for anything else and might change other games. my guess is AGOT is too popular to switch and COC is only changing b/c it isn't selling well.

Dain Ironfoot said:

I know FFG said that, but it isn't true. LotR is changing. The saga model is the same thing as CoC. The question isn't whether or not LotR is changing, but if it will be changing back after the two Hobbit boxes are done.

Bohemond said:

yes, you are technically correct that LOTR is changing from the model we've had for the first year. but you are incorrect in saying it is changing to the COC model (given the statements by FFG). there is no link between COC and the saga expansion -- they are two different things (COC is the new release schedule, hobbit is a "special event"). for one, we don't even know that the two hobbit sets are 4 months apart from one another. additionally, the saga is a standalone product in many ways, a self contained story to capitalize on the movie, the COC releases are not.. the 4-month interval for COC is b/c of slowing sales.

however, the larger point is that no LCG has been consistent with a release schedule. sometimes there are deluxe expansions, sometimes there aren't. sometimes there are two cycles in a row, sometimes cycles are interrupted by deluxe expansions. now, COC is moving to releases every 4 months.

the hobbit expansion is something special. so, given that the article flat out said no other LCG is moving to 4 month intervals, i think we can somewhat safely infer the hobbit is just a special event and we'll return to our regularly scheduled programming after that.

one would think, if other LCGs were changing permanently to the 4-month model, the article would not have been explicit in mentioning that no other LCG title is changing to the 4-month interval.

Dain Ironfoot said:

Actually, I think claiming that " no LCG has been consistent with a release schedule" obfuscates the larger issue; that the LotR LCG looks to be going FAR longer between chapter packs than any of the other LCGS.

Bohemond said:

it's really fruitless to speculate, at this point, given that we know so little. we know that we are getting two saga expansions full of nifty cards, with the first box out this friday. sometime soon, the battle of lake-town should be available via POD (yay smaug!). what's after that, we don't know. maybe gencon will give more info (but if i remember last year, we got little-to-no information re: LOTR). maybe the next cycle starts in time for the holidays, maybe it's the beginning of the year. either way, to claim anything definitively, other than what has been stated by FFG, isn't grounded in what we know for sure.

with three releases set to come out in the next few months, i think it's a bit premature to say that the game is dying, coming to an end, or that there is some permanent change to the release schedule (as some have been claiming). i know we are all anxious for what's next, but i think that's keeping us from realizing three sets are coming out in the next couple of months…that's a delay between adventure packs, to be sure, but it's not like we are devoid of new cards.

but if they dont have a big box expansion, and just go straight into the next cycle, where are all the cards going to come from? are we just going to have standalone quests using their own encounter deck (like massing at osgiliath), or are we going to have to re-use the cards from the old box? i don't mind the first one (especially if they make the adventure packs a little bit bigger to accommodate more cards), but i hope it's not the second one

Another expansion, currently scheduled for release later in 2012, will introduce related scenarios that conclude Bilbo’s classic adventure!

These include Bilbo Baggins (The Hobbit: Over Hill and Under Hill, 1), an event with the Baggins sphere of influence, and the new treasure cards. These cards are only intended for use in The Hobbit: Over Hill and Under Hill and a second Saga Expansion, slated to arrive in late 2012, that will relate the second and final half of Bilbo’s adventures.

This is, what two of the three saga announcements say.. so we will get another Sags Expansion Box of Bilbo later in 2012.

*Late* 2012? :/

Like november at best?

If this really means no pack from this week to november, I'm going to be sad. Yes FFG, I will be.

Emrad said:

yes you get 'em told emrad …..and i shall second that…..grrr…..no packs = me not happy

Bohemond said:

Just because they decided to release two saga expansions doesn't mean they change anything really. I don't really understand what people are so quickly predicting doom and changes for this game when there's no facts to back it up? What not just take the two expansions, rejoy, and then see what Christmas brings? Or Jan 13. Nothing whatsoever hints that FFG is making any changes to other games than CoC, so just sit back and enjoy the ride

First of all, I am not predicting doom. However I just don't see how you can say that an entirely different dispersment system for 6+ months qualifies as not really changing anything.

Why is everyone dismissing the possibility that a new cycle will being in the fall, maybe even between the release of the 2 saga expansions, using cards from the Core Set only (plus each AP), in the same way that Shadows of Mirkwood cycle did?

After all, the model of requiring to always have a Core Set + Deluxe Expansion + AP to be able to enjoy AP won't be sustenable forever (except for us hardcore fans who will buy everything anyway). The major seller of any game line is always the Core Set. Right now, someone wanting to buy the Core set and an AP is limited to the first 6 from the first cycle. Any Dwarrodelf AP requires not only that AP, but the Kazad Deluxe expansion as well.

They need to find a way to make the Core set matter to people buying AP later on.

Also, although most Shadows of Mirkwood AP are still widerly available, there may come a time when they won't be. Rather than just counting on reprints, they should put other products out there that compliment the Core Set.

They could even come up with "optional" type of quests where you get to play it using only encounters from Core + AP or Core + Deluxe + AP, based on what you own.

I do believe this game requires a regular influx of quest cards to keep fresh. I don't think they'll switch to the 4 months release as with CoC. But I don't believe we'll always have this Deluxe + 6 AP type of cycle either. We should hear something soon after the release of the first Hobbit Saga expansion.

Last point of note: why is everyone saying that The Hobbit is released to cash on the movies when it's being released in August and the movie is only coming out in December?

SiCK_Boy said:

I generally agree with you here. We've had two cycles that are somewhat (if not outright) tangential to the principal source material, so now we get something from the source material. And which item do we start with? The first - ergo we have The Hobbit coming out.

On the other hand, there is the new movie coming out, and even if it's before the movie release, its release is early enough for us, and current enough for fans of the movie to lay hands on one if they're interested. So perhaps the release is timed to around the time of the movie, but as others have pointed out these "saga expansions" will all be released this year while the second (and now third movies) won't come out for another year or two.

Regardless of FFG's motives for releasing The Hobbit, I'm excited that it will be out soon.

SiCK_Boy said:

Because, in the past, new cycles for every LCG have been announced about five or six months prior to their release.