Fire and Ice & Pits

By 3green, in Descent: Journeys in the Dark

If a hero has finished his move but is then sliding along the ice, can the overlord place a pit in the path of this slide?

Under the current rules, if the hero moves into an empty space, no matter what the reason, the OL can hit them with Trap - Space cards such as Spiked Pit. I'm not 100% sure the area denoted as Ice on that map should be considered empty, but I think it's possible to move a hero such that it ends up sliding off the Ice onto non-ice spaces. Don't have the card or map in front of me, however.

One has to consider what "if a hero moves into an empty space" means. Does this mean:

"if a hero moves [himself] into an empty space"

or

"if a hero [is moved] into an empty space"

My read of that says the Hero has to be doing the moving.

Same thing with a Poltergeist. If a card says "move all objects and characters up to 3 spaces," does that constitue the object moving or being moved? Same thing with Knockback.

I view traps as something that the OL plays which is triggered by a player / hero action. This is of course the more "friendly" OL approach, as some OLs out there like to take any sense of a hero being moved to be fair game, aka poltergeist, or even bumping the table - "Hey - the hero moved!" :-p

poobaloo said:

One has to consider what "if a hero moves into an empty space" means. Does this mean:

"if a hero moves [himself] into an empty space"

or

"if a hero [is moved] into an empty space"

My read of that says the Hero has to be doing the moving.

It means exactly what it says, a hero moves into an empty space.

That's all, it doesn't matter who moves him. The fact that it is completely legal to play Crushing Block, which let's the OL move the Hero to an adjacent space, and then play a Pit trap card backs it up. As does the fact that you can have a monster with Knockback hit a Hero, the OL moves him 3 spaces and you can play a "if the hero enters an empty space" triggered trap card on the Hero.

I'm sorry, but I can not see a gray area on the meaning of "if a hero moves into an empty space" based on the rules and several FAQ statements about the OL being able to play Trap cards with that trigger after CB and Knockback.

And I don't think based on the description of Ice in the rules and the (admittedly insane) definition of an empty space that you could because having Ice counts as a "non-empty" space since it is an obstacle.

Actually, the ice obstacle from the Tomb of Ice expansion doesn't cause heroes to move at all, it causes them to stop moving (well, to end their turn). I assumed that he must be talking about some special dungeon-specific thing, probably from RtL.

Antistone said:

Actually, the ice obstacle from the Tomb of Ice expansion doesn't cause heroes to move at all, it causes them to stop moving (well, to end their turn). I assumed that he must be talking about some special dungeon-specific thing, probably from RtL.

It is from RTL, and is completely different than TOI ice obstacles. We just played this one last night. And it should be noted that there ARE pits in the room with the ice in it. Bascally the room is shaded blue and it tells you that the empty spaces in the room are covered in ice. I think they were designed specifically with the idea in mind that if one is not careful where they end their movement (this is the stipulation: when a hero (note: hero) ends his movement on an "ice" space he rolls a red die and heads the red dies range # of spaces in the direction he was headed. It made for some interesting scenarios where heroes would attack in the middle of movement instead of farther away to avoid sliding past their target or spending an extra fatigue for movement to avoid being in a position where they would slide into a pit. I didn't have any spiked pits at the time, but I am confident a pit could be played on those spaces and even after the hero slid (leaving them in a pit after they ended their movement and severely limiting their ability to not be spawned on).

Feanor said:

Antistone said:

Actually, the ice obstacle from the Tomb of Ice expansion doesn't cause heroes to move at all, it causes them to stop moving (well, to end their turn). I assumed that he must be talking about some special dungeon-specific thing, probably from RtL.

It is from RTL, and is completely different than TOI ice obstacles. We just played this one last night. And it should be noted that there ARE pits in the room with the ice in it. Bascally the room is shaded blue and it tells you that the empty spaces in the room are covered in ice. I think they were designed specifically with the idea in mind that if one is not careful where they end their movement (this is the stipulation: when a hero (note: hero) ends his movement on an "ice" space he rolls a red die and heads the red dies range # of spaces in the direction he was headed. It made for some interesting scenarios where heroes would attack in the middle of movement instead of farther away to avoid sliding past their target or spending an extra fatigue for movement to avoid being in a position where they would slide into a pit. I didn't have any spiked pits at the time, but I am confident a pit could be played on those spaces and even after the hero slid (leaving them in a pit after they ended their movement and severely limiting their ability to not be spawned on).

Oh, so all empty spaces in that section are denoted as "slippery due to Ice" by marking them blue on the map? Ok.

That would mean that you may play as many pits as you have cards for in that room, and it's not like it conflicts with the "Ice" rules for that map because only empty spaces cause slipping (pits rendering a space no longer empty). For ToI Ice, yeah, you can't play a pit on ToI Ice, like Remy said.