Even if it does not end the run, having the ice do something that the runner cannot prevent by breaking it is pretty overpowered.

Powerful. You mean powerful. It's waaaaaaay too early in the game to call things "overpowered".

Have to agree with radiskull. No one has even played the game yet. To say that something is "overpowered" is pretty silly. Lets wait til the game comes out and we have a few sessions under our belts before we start labeling cards as being overpowered. Seems the sensible thing to do. no?

That's a fair point. Coming from the original, I feel it is overpowered, but with A:N things will be a little different so we will just have to see.

Agreed. Definitely one to keep an eye on, though.

Doc9 said:

Well yes. As I've said, things will likely play out much differently in practice. But the release isn't for a few days till a few weeks or months away depending on where we are, and we need something to talk about.

And Hadrian's Wall behind Data Raven is giving the Runner TWO birds.

cetiken said:

What?

When the Runner encounters Data Raven, he or she must either take 1 tag or end the run.

Kate needs to write an icebreaker called one stone .

AussieKSU said:

I never ever want to give the runner options.

Is the runner making a foolish run on click 4? He gets ejected and I don't even get to trace him to put a counter on the Data Raven (an effect I really do like). Does the runner have a handy Decoy or six agenda points or the resources to ditch a tag before my turn? Then the continues forward. Its a loose loose from the corp PoV.

I don't feel that the unbreakable "tag or end the run" is the powerful part of Data Raven.

I think the powerful part of Data Raven is the unremoveable virtual tag you get if the trace lands. Assuming you can use the hosted power counter on the Corp turn (and I don't see any reason you couldn't), it's much more powerful than a normal tag because it's a tag you can hold on to until you're ready to flatline the Runner, and the only thing they can do about it (so far) is Decoy.

The unbreakable routine is amazing (relative to IC in original NR, and the IC I have seen so far). It is almost like, when the runner encounters data raven, they lose a click. Early threat and virus decks will be hurt a lot from this card.

I would consider playing it without any subroutines - the fact that it has a routine which gives an on demand tag makes it even better.

It is common towards the middle game that the runner never suffers the effects of an unbroken subroutine, as all their breakers are in place. Most of my experiences with NR had the runner only running on several pieces of unrezzed IC if all 3 (4 now) IC breaker types were present.

Just my opinion on incomplete information - this IC will be in almost every competitive deck, along with data analyzer.

I agree very much with Chrondeath. I only expect the tag or EtR clause to be good if I'm playing a bad player who makes the wrong choice. And I'm planing to beat the bad players anyway.

If however, I can get a counter on the bird in the early game and hold on to it for a key moment of destruction say after tutoring up the second copy of Scorched Earth via Aggressive Neotiaion. Now that Tag on demand token is pure gold. At least that my current idea for using the Data Raven in Wayland.

I'm not at all sure I would run it in Jentaki or H-B though. In those decks they may think about Matrix Analizer though they may also consider importing The Shadow to improve their econ and give the potential to destry a resoruce or two. Thats all those corps can really use tags for natively anyway.

cetiken said:

Your second point, for sure, I totally agree with you, and I think this is what the OP had in mind. Very powerful in this regard.

Your first point seems to kind of contradict your desire for end the run effects, which you stated earlier. You are always getting an effect from the IC that is unavoidable. Nuking your opponent with Scorched Earth is even effective with this. If the aren't running on their 4th click, they are going to have to immediatly deal with the tag, which is almost like costing a click. On the other hand, ending the run… weren't you saying these were magic words?

Suffice to say, it's a really cool card, and I'm enjoying seeing other people's perspectives .

Note that I've never said they aren't very good cards.

I quite like NBN's unstopable Ice theme, though I think they'll probably want to import a couple hard EtR pieces from someone else too.

Totally agree. The gnarly IC from weyland looks slick.

AussieKSU said:

cetiken and Chrondeath have a point re: giving the Runner a choice. It's typically always bad to give your opponent choices (unless they are both very nasty), because they can always take they least harmful one. That said, landing traces is oh so good, if also fleeting with all those Decoys and whatnot floating around.

A card I am amazed I'd forgotten about, and equally surprised no one else has brought up yet, is Breaking News. It's an NBN agenda so you can't slide it into a Weyland deck, but it has an Advancement cost of 2 and says "When you score Breaking News, give the Runner 2 tags." They only last that turn, but that's when you double-Scorched Earth! Or close their accounts, or kill their mother or whatever.

Moreso perhaps than Data Raven, scoring a late Breaking News (since you can hang on to it) could really wreck some data thief's day.

Honestly I didn't mention it since I'm looking at cards through Wayland tinted glasses right now. I have somthing of a man-crush on a corp so blatantly evil it gives itself bad publicity.

Though, Posted Bounty has a comparable effect.

I am somewhat confused by you suggestion that either effect could be 'held on to'. Both effects happen as soon as the agenda is scored. As opposed to the Data Raven's power counter which is a constant threat that only tag prevention / avoidance will stop.

You score agendas when you want to, not necessarily the moment they're fully advanced.

Khudzlin said:

Fair enough, but most runners will, I think, not let Wayland or NBN sit around with a data fort holding a card advanced two or three times. Of course that makes spending some influence for traps like Aggressive Secratery appealing.

Trap early, trap often!

You can sit around with Breaking News, but you can also hold them in HQ until you have an optimal moment to deploy them (preferably to a remote server on the SanSan Grid).

1. Install > 2. Advance > 3. Scorched Earth / Closed Accounts / Psychographics

Click, click, CLICK! If you didn't just win, repeat next turn!

Can someone explain to me a little more about the faction cost system? I googled it but couldn't find anything that explained what it was or how it works.

SeraphimWarmachine said:

Each identity has a limit to the amount of out of faction influence can be in their deck. In the core set, all the identities have an influence limit of 15.

Each faction card has a meter with 0 to 5 influence. You can have any number of out of factions cards with influence that totals to less than or equal to your limit. If the card has no influence bar, you can't include it if it's not in your faction.

All the faction agendas in the base set have no influence bar and thus cannot be included in the decks of other factions. All the neutral cards in the base set have an influence of 0 so you can have as many of those as you want in your deck.

For example, NBN's identity has an influence limit of 15. NBN decides to bring in three copies of Weyland's Scorched Earth (influence 4) and three copies of Weyland's Aggressive Negotiation (influence 1).

(4x3) + (1x3) = 15

NBN has now added as many out of faction cards as they are allowed.

SeraphimWarmachine said:

While this has been answered now already, I wanted to point out that the rulebook is available as a pdf download in the Support section of the website.

Just to answer an earlier question, there are 3 of botj Matrix Analyzer and Data Raven available in the core set.

During the Icebreaker, there was a lot of scorched earth running around, but not so much data raven. Looking back, I agree, running taggers from NBN In a wayland deck is far more efficient, especially because you could then also include Snare from Jinteki that is net damage plus an automatic tag.

It's in the manual ( you can find it in the "support" section of the Android: Netrunner product subsite) on page 24. It's simple, your identity determines how much Out of Faction influence your deck can contain (currently 15 for all identities). Cards with no faction don't count, and cards with no influence rating aren't available out of faction (think of this as infinite influence).