I know we are still in betatesting and long way from any supplements which will add plently of these, but I´ll be damned if anybody havent already tought about some homebrewed ones. As I am skimming Only War from today I came with concepts of these:

Guardsman: Pathfinder (named about archeotype from Inquisitor LRB, your resident scout-sniper for people who like Mkoll and Mad Larkin but dont want to play Ratling, not the copypaste from those grimdark hobbits, one sniper advance and one more targeted to stealth) and Bodyguard (more CC and T guy, with Stormtrooper advances as I dont think they represent spec ops guy correctly (and want to remade him as in Ascension), maybe recreate him as colour-sergeant/standard bearer and you got the archeotype similiar to Jarran Kell)

Support Specialities : Gland Warrior (Lostock Augmentation as in RT Into the Storm, bit lost in other possible advances.. what I remember from older fluff companies of these guys are seconded to regular regiments), Navy Office r (combination of piloting we will hopefuly see later and liasoning with air support), Commissariat Provost (if anybody rembmer these guys from Last Chancers novels, military police types something like Guard Arbitrator with shotgun of course), Officio Sabatorum Operative (terrorist/saboteur guy, mentioned in Eye of Terror and Third Armageddon Campaigns and Last Chancers, specialities in sabotage, chem warfare and mass murder, maybe some mental traume resistance..)

Any ideas?

I've built a couple that I figure need some love: the Flight Leader (essentially the Sergeant,) Hotshot Ace (the offensive guy,) and Support Pilot (flies the bombers and transports.) I figure their names are self-explanatory. Really hoping we get a Navy book at some point.

Seconding an eventual Scout sort of career. More abhumans would be welcome as well; Squats are back in the game now, and there are new ones (Felinids and Longhsanks spring to mind) that could be used for neat new options. Someone is always going to want a Space Marine , regardless of how much sense it makes. The lack of a non-Ratling Sniper also hurts.

I also support bringing back the Adept, Arbitrator , Assassin , Scum , and Sister .

Plushy said:

Please, oh please don't bring that god-awful nonesensical debate back to life.

It'll kill us all!!!

I don't think Navy Officer will ever happen, if for the sole reason that post Horus Heresy the Navy and Guard are distinctly separate bodies, and I'd be surprised if FFG broke this. I suppose an argument could be made for treating them as temporary allies rather than permanent brothers-in-arms, but I would honestly be surprised to see this as a new class.

Artillerist Spotter- Plays with 'real' guns and indirct fire weapons

Grenadier- Shock troops which aren't stormtroopers and have stuff like a 'personality'

Sapper- Field engineer, demolitions expert, could also be expanded as a dedicated tank killer

Rough Rider- Because riding critters can go places no armoured ever will

Skitarii Hyspasists- basic tech-guard infantry with augmentation

Lieutenant- because the game needs some kind of rank advancement

MKX said:

Skitarii would make me so happy. I fully support a Rough Rider, but only because they can use Bikes. Sapper wouldn't work well because Demolitions isn't a skill anymore. Storm Trooper works for grenadier; you can RP however you like. What would the Lieutenant even do, argue with people about how to pronounce his rank?

Artillery could be fun for NPCs, but impractical for a PC - you can't bring the artillery with you.

MKX said:

Artillery seems to be much more in hands of NPCs than PCs

Storm Troopers are Grenadiers

Sappers are Operators

Rough Rider/Biker would be nice.

Skitarii are probably going to have their own book

Lieutenant and Sarge are really the same thing, they lead. Except it's squad base for the Sgt and Company Base for the Lt. just rename Sgt to "Officer".

Might be a bit redundant, but maybe a Guardsman who focuses on logistics and sensors? I know someone called for a specific Vox-Operator but it was said to be too niche, perhaps someone who has a connection to the wider scope of the battle or something? I imagine some guy running around with a big vox caster and tons of maps, possibly loaded with various Lore skills and Navigate abilities.

So, I work on these:

Pathfinder (Guardsman)
snipers, scouts, trackers and recon specialists

Characteristic Bonus: +5 Per or +5 BS
Starting Aptides: Agility, Ballistic Skill, Perception, Offence, Fieldcraft. Finnese
Starting Skills: Awareness, Navigation (Surface), Stealth or Survival, Common Lore (Imperial Guard)
Starting Talents: Heightened Sense (Sight, Hearing), Weapon Training (Las, Low Tech, SP)
Specialist Equipment: Good Craftmanship Long Las or Good Quality Sniper Rifle with Telescopic Sight
Wounds: 8+1D5

Whiteshield (Guardsman)
THE Whiteshields, cadets, feral world braves, children of the regiment and those who lied about their age

Characteristic Bonus: +1 Fate Point
Starting Aptides: Weapon Skill, Toughness, Ballistic Skill, Perception, Social, Fieldcraft
Starting Skills: Awareness, Charm or Scrutiny, Athletics or Inquiry
Starting Talents: Unremarkable or Double Team, Weapon Training (Las, Low Tech)
Specialist Trait: Charmed (As DH Voidborn)
Specialist Equipment: Good Craftmanship Lasgun, Lucky Charm
Wounds: 6+1D5

CandC are welcome as well as suggestions for specialist advances/orders, I guess that they would need some playtest. Now I am about to do

DO MOAR Guardsman: Cult Adherent, Batman, Scroundel, Tank Ace, Pariah

ADD NEW Support Specialists: Gland Warrior, Commissariat Provost, Navy Liason, Afriel Strain, Sabatorum Operative, Munitorium Questor, Sister Hospitaller (Support Specialist)

REWORK: Stormtrooper in all his badass glory (more closely too Ascension stormie), split Weapon Specialist into Special Weapons Specialist and Shock Trooper

TorogTarkdacil812 said:

I'm a big fan of that Pathfinder, although he may be in trouble for having the same name and role as a Tau unit. Perhaps "Scout" or "Recon" could work?

Whiteshield is a clever concept, one I will admit to not thinking of before. He should have "Upgrade one firearm in his Standard Kit to Good-craftsmanship," though. Which won't really help him much if it's a Las weapon anyway.

A 'Batman' class sounds wonderful to me as a "Sabatorum Agent" class. Tank Ace and Pariah both sound very cool. The bulk of those Supports sound new to me, aside from Gland Warrior and Sister Hospitallier. Care to elaborate?

Scum (600xp)
Characteristic Bonus: +5 Fellowship
Starting Aptitudes: Agility, Fellowship, Perception, Ballistic Skill, Fieldcraft, Social
Starting Skills: Charm or Deceive, Sleight of Hand, Stealth
Starting Talents: Technical Knock or Quick Draw, Light Sleeper, Weapon Training (Solid Projectile, Low-Tech)
Starting Equipment: Common-craftsmanship Autogun and 1 clip of ammunition or Common-craftsmanship Shotgun (pump action) and 3 clips of ammunition, 1 Frag Grenade, Good-craftsmanship Autopistol and 1 clip ammunition, knife, street clothes
Starting Wounds: 8+1d5

Arbitrator (600xp)
Characteristic Bonus: +5 Toughness
Starting Aptitudes: Ballistic Skill, Toughness, Fellowship, Intelligence, Leadership, Defense
Starting Skills: Common Lore (Adeptus Arbites, Imperium), Inquiry
Starting Talents: Jaded, Takedown, Weapon Training (Solid Projectile, Low-Tech, Power)
Starting Equipment: Common-craftsmanship Shotgun (pump action) and 2 clips of ammunition, Common-craftsmanship Shock Maul (counts as a Power Maul on Low setting) or Riot Shield (4 AP to Body and the held arm, +15 to Parry,) Common-craftsmanship Light Carapace armour
Starting Wounds: 10+1d5

Assassin (600xp)
Characteristic Bonus: +5 Ballistic Skill or Weapon Skill
Starting Aptitudes: Weapon Skill, Ballistic Skill, Agility, Perception, Finesse, Fieldcraft
Starting Skills: Awareness, Dodge, Acrobatics or Stealth
Starting Talents: Deadeye Shot or Sure Strike, Lightning Reflexes, Weapon Training (Las, Solid Projectile, Low-Tech)
Starting Equipment: Common-craftsmanship Long-las and 4 clips of ammunition or Common-craftsmanship Mono-Sword, Common-craftsmanship Mono-Knife or Common-craftsmanship Laspistol and 2 clips of ammunition, 2 Smoke Grenades, bodyglove
Starting Wounds: 9+1d5

Storm Trooper [Plushy mix] (300xp)
Characteristic Bonus: +5 Toughness
Starting Aptitudes: Agility, Ballistic Skill, Fieldcraft, Finesse, Toughness, Weapon Skill
Starting Skills: Awareness, Dodge or Parry, Intimidate or Command, Scholastic Lore (Tactica Imperialis), Operate (Grav-chute)
Starting Talents: Quick Draw or Rapid Reload, Weapon Training (Las, Low-Tech)
Starting Equipment: Common-craftsmanship Hotshot Lasgun w/Auxiliary Grenade Launcher and backpack ammunition, 2 Frag grenades, Common-craftsmanship Storm Trooper Carapace Armour, Grav-chute
Starting Wounds: 11+1d5

Well, I don't know if it's what he meant, but a batman in the british army sense was an officer's valet. Made sure his boots were shiny and his pistol was loaded. Could be fun actually, sort of like playing Planchet and the rest of the servants from the Three Musketeers or Kostas Matsugae from the Empire of Man books.

Would definiitely be the skills and faceman sort of character with lots of intelligence and social aptitudes and almost none for combat. Doesn't really belong with a regular combat patrol of course, but maybe he spilled hot recaff in the Brigadiers lap?

TorogTarkdacil812 said:

Offence doesn't fit with the role of the Pathfinder. I'd swap it with Toughness to weather the inclemencies of climate and terrain. Also, he should be trained in Las or SP, not both, just like everybody else.

And I'd expect "whiteshield" to be a temporary condition, not a life-long career.

Perhaps name it "Rookie" or "FNG" to keep it tongue in-cheek?

Plushy said:

They mean exactly the same thing, so I don't see the difference. Also, 1 extra Fate Point seems a lot more powerful than a +5.

Eeeehw, dang the quoting her down to warp

@Plushy: Thanks, I´m fan of your work here (still dont know what PEACH stands for to be honest ). But to the point, I wanted to name it about similiar concept from older Inquisitor narrative wargame, I think that naming itself is important but not crucial, I could argue that name scout is mixing with that Astartes Neophytes:) As for the specialist classes:

Commissariat Provosts were featured in Gav Thorpe´s 13th Legion, when they do majority of bitchslapping for Commissariat and I like to think that sqaud leaders from newest IG codex also fall under this organisation. They should represent concepts of military police or "Guard Arbitrators" as they were also present in for example Abnet´s Magistratum Order Militant Division or DH´s Chaliced Commissariat. Navy Liason should play on concepts of flyboy who got stucked with footsloggers, coordinate efforts with Imperial Navy, be the groups pilot (when we get rules for flyers) and be slightly arrogant sod who likes close combat, for fluff examples again, Gav Thorpe´s Last Chancers and IG codex. Afriel Strain are products of secret and slightly heretekal project (for more inclouding spoilers I recomend Lexicanum) to create the albino supersoldiers… which are unfortunately somehow cursed and prone to cause fatal incidents on themselves and all around them, source: Last Chancers novels and old White Dwarf abhuman doctrines. Sabatorum Operative were mentioned in name only in force lists of 3rd War for Armageddon and 13th Black Crusade and then get some screen time in Last Chancers, they could also fit the idea of High Command Generals Secret Service as presented in Gaunt´a Ghosts or Rebel Winter. Their calling is simple: saboteur, terrorist and black ops guy.

@Andor: Yeap that´s the goal, if we want to go by 40k examples, then Gunner Jurgen for HERO OF THE IMPERIUM Cain or Trooper Beltayn for Colonel-Commissar Gaunt are paragons of this concept. Of course they wouldnt be the combat monster but also no sissies (Strenght and also choose between BS and WS and Defence will be there) and they would know how to handle officers and Munitorium.

@JuanKi Man: Oh thanks, edited. As for getting thoughness I am not sure, in Pathfinder I wanted to make something that is not straight clone of Ratling Sniper (please everybody do not start THAT debate) and I think that a scout should be proficient in close combat as well, maybe choose offence or toughness?

As for whiteshield, I guess, but if some of these are, lets say 13 years old it´s quite a long time. Many of those who survive to be a full guardsman will probably still have some monicker as "boy", "youngster" or such attached to them. It is realy about gameplay and story segregation, you see, your Heavy Weapons Guy can be promoted to sergeant rank, but he would not be Sergeant rulewise.

Gland Warrior is coming…

TorogTarkdacil812 said:

The Provost is a rearguard position, so it would have no bussiness in a regular squad. It could be dragged into the fighting if **** hits the fan, but it would be the exception, not the rule, so I don't find it appropriate. About the Navy Liason, if he's there to coordinate with the Navy, he should be in the safety of a buker or actually coordinating with the commanding officers, not slogging in the frontlines where he has the worst strategic view of the situation. Also, I've mentioned somewhere else that no squad needs a dedicated pilot because being in the cockpit of a Thunderbolt fighter or even the Squad's Valkyrie makes you so removed from the squad you might as well be playing a different game. The poor Afriel Strain sods sound more like a Background Package than an archetype. And the Sabatorum Operative might work, though it seems like something that would work best alone or together with others like himself.

TorogTarkdacil812 said:

Being someone who is expected to scout the enemy from a vantage position and generally not be seen, I don't think he has that much use for hand to hand, especially not something as pain-bringing as Offense. If he gets found out he would be expected to scarper back to the squad, preferably alive, and Toughness would help with that.

If a 13 year old boy survives to full adulthood in the Guard by then he will be a full-blown veteran who has witnessed more death and misery than people twice his age, and anyone calling him "boy" would get a kuckle sandwich with extra toppings of pain. Whiteshields either die or wise up, yet the class seems oriented to always being the bright-faced new guy who has begginer's luck. It's like the first episode of RECESS, in which Gus is doomed to be the 'New Kid' forever or until a new new kid came along.

1/ Well, than we can argue that Sanctionated Psyker. Tech-Priest, Commissar and Priest have no position to be permanently in regular squad as their callings are not exactly frontline (ok, with exception of Commissar, but than, why should he be attached to one squad all the time?). And that Stormtroopers, Ratlings and Ogryns would work best in dedicated squads. That´s why they are Support Specialists. Heck, without fluff in Beta we don´t know if we will be only playing the regular squad, but I personaly doubt it. There are uncountable examples in 40k fiction of specialist groups or irregular squads even from mundane regiments, which would be intresting to roleplay. Last Chancers, Tanith (Vervunhivers, Belladons, some local priest guy, oh and missions with other regiments), Redemption Corps from the novel of same name, search party in Ice Guard, Detachment 99 from Imperial Armour IV Anphelion Project, deathsquad of stormtroopers, Inteligence Officer and Eversor in IA3: Taros Campaign, concept of kill-team in general as presented in WH40k 4th Edition Rulebook…

2/ I see your point with Pathfinder, Toughness it is. Yeah, I understand, but as Weapon Specialist does not represent just some regular grunt or operator isn´t some generic driver, I intented the Whiteshield not to be just a representation of some new guy, more of something like a charm and lucky guy, along the ways of Brin Milo from GG, or even Lieutanant Sulla from CC (altough she is slightly more insane…)

*Oh, I almost forgot:

Gland Warrior (Support Specialist)

Characteristic Bonus: +5 Tough or +5 Strenght
Starting Aptides: Weapon Skill, Strenght, Toughness, Willpower, Offence, Fieldcraft
Starting Skills: Awareness, Dodge or Parry, Survival, Chem-Use, Common Lore (War)
Starting Talents: Chem-Geld, Berserk Charge or Blind Fighting, Jaded or Paranoia, Weapon Training (Las or SP)
Specialist Traits: Lostock Augmentation (as int RT Into the Storm)
Specialist Equipment: Common Craftmanship Shotgun or Common Craftmanship Laspistol and Common Craftmanship Chainsword or Good Craftmanship Great Weapon
Wounds: 11 + 1D5

TorogTarkdacil812 said:

Sanctioned Psykers and Tech-Priests tend to be second-line but will move to the frontlines as situation requires, while the Comissar and Priest's jobs are in the thick of the fight, emboldening the troops and keeping the line. Also, at least in 4rd Ed., all those classes could be attached to an infantry squad, effectively forming part of it. The Comissar is assigned to… oversee the Sergeant, the Priest decides to make the squad the Emperor's chosen vessel for His word, Command assigns the squad to "escort" one of their most talented psykers (whether it's because they consider him too valuable an asset to risk or because they don't trust a standard 4-man escort to keep him in check is up to debate) and who knows what arcane calculations drove the cog-head to believe joining the squad was the most optimum use of his talents? He's tagging along anyway.

The common denominator is that they're all fighting men in the Guard. True, sometimes you can get the aid of some irregulars, but in almost all of the examples you mentioned the irregulars stayed until the crisis was averted and then parted to never again cross paths. If you're doing a one-shot campaign then that's fine, but if you plan on dragging your players along several campaings and different operational theaters, then the only suitable classes are those that'll stick around through thick and thin because, at the end of the day, they're all brothers in arms.

TorogTarkdacil812 said:

can u direct me to that one someone anyone?

Angel of Death said:

http://www.forgeworld.co.uk/Warhammer-40000/Imperial_Armour_Books/IMPERIAL-ARMOUR-VOLUME-THREE-THE-TAROS-CAMPAIGN.html

have the book, but can't find pairing in question. looking for page reference

Angel of Death said:

Don´t own the book but IIRC mission to kill Tau Commander and Ethereal was after Operation Comet but before big Tau push, and it is presented both in fluff and mission sections, hope it helps.