I have Strong Belwas (Strong Belwas gets -1 STR for each gold token on him and is killed if his STR is 0. Response: Place 1 gold token from the treasury on Strong Belwas to save another unique Targ character from being killed or discarded from play. (Limit once per phase.)), and Quaithe of the Shadow (unique Targ) in play.

Timing question, plot phase:

Opponent reveals Valar Morgulis.

I reveal 1: Search and Detain OR 2: Marched to the Walls OR 3: At the Palace of Sorrows.

1) I choose to be First Player.

2) I choose my plot to happen first.

3) I target Strong Belwas with my plot.

4) Presumably, Strong Belwas is moribund hand/discard/deck at this point.

5) When Valar goes off, can I use Strong Belwas to save Quaithe?

6) What happens if Strong Belwas had 2 gold before plot phase started. He's already moribund hand/discard/deck, but then his own text would want to make him dead.

The question seems to be, since he is already moribund and no attempt can be made to make him leave play again (such as with his passive), can you still trigger his response? However, since his response is not limit the number of gold on him, it is only the passive that is attempting to make him leave play. So I would say you could still use his response to save your other unique. But I'd also suggest waiting until someone either confirms or refutes my logic.

jmccarthy said:

jmccarthy said:

Being moribund does not stop a character from activating abilities that do not remove it from play again as either effect or cost.

Now, that being said, since "All "when revealed" plot effects must resolve before any other passive effects initiated by the revealing of a plot card(s) are resolved," all cards made moribund by a plots are still physcially on the table until after all plots resolve.

That being the case, I see no reason that Belwas' Response could not be used to save another character, since Responses come before moribund cards are removed from play.

As for 6), a character that is moribund cannot be targeted (either by effect or cost) for any effect that would remove them from play, so if he is moribund before getting 3 gold on him, he goes to that moribund destination.

It's a great point to make with Strong Belwas that I didn't consider.

He can, by himself, undo an opponents Valar from wiping your board of unique Targaryens. Or if you choose to Valar, he'll be the only unique Targaryen you control to die basically.

Bomb said:

Except that his Response is limit 1 per phase.

Bomb said:

Other than that, the reasoning in the rest of the thread is correct. Belwas can save another unique Targ character from being killed or discarded, even if he himself is moribund. Subject to his own "once per phase" limit, of course.

It is also correct that killing him at 0 is a passive effect that kicks in when his STR reaches 0. Since it is not a direct result of triggering his save Response, the "moribund rules exception" preventing you from removing a moribund card from play a second time will not apply (since it is the passive, not the Response, that is blocked by that rule).

KristoffStark said:

Sure. Explains why I didn't think of it before. Because I wouldn't have bothered.