Had a quick two or three of questions.

1) The obvious way to gain the two is through MK. If gained through magic, psychic powers, etc, you have to maintain it. so,

a) Is there any other way for characters to gain permanent Inhumanity or Zen besides MK?

b) If you gain inhuman level stats while maintaining a power, and then you cease to maintain it, what happens?

2) How do you guys handle pre "Inhuman stats"? Specifically letting int, pow, WP, and per go over 10 without it. The book talks up a hard cap at 10, but then slyly mentions that mental stats "may" be able to go over. It's a bit vague and has roused some arguments. So, I would like to know what you guys do about it.

3) Finally, just thought I would throw this in there, how do you guys handle starting Magic Levels. In the core book it mentions not letting someone start with all their levels, and it stresses this even more in arcana exxet. But it never gives a guideline on how to do it and how much and it's kind of a sticky situation, at least in my group, to "nerf" someone without rulings on it. Like they understand that the book says so, but a lot of argument can be made on how much because the book never says. How do you guys do it?

TLDR: How do you guys limit starting magic levels?

Thanks!

Jenks said:

You can get it through Elan. Now admittedly that's not ABSOLUTELY permanent, because you can lose your Élan, but it's a lot more permanent than a maintained spell. It should last you long enough until you get to the point where you decide you can afford to spend MK on buying it permanently.

Jenks said:

I'm sure it's written somewhere (not able to check right now) that the mental stats max out at 13 before Inhumanity, and 15 (I think) before Zen.

#1a: I would say, if the group had done something really big, they can obtian inhumanity/zen through a ritual/potion/etc.. It is on the GM do decide, if he would give them "Inhumanity/Zen" permanent without Ki Abilities/Elan.

#1b: He would lose the benefits of the "inhuman level states", but he would get them back, if he could to inhuman action again. For example: Someone with an Agi 11 could only use the Movement speed of 11, if he could do "inhuman action" at exactly this moment. If he couldn't, he would use a movement speed of 10

#2: In my group, it isn't permitted to get a characteristic score of 11+ without inhumanity. It is, how we play. The same page states, that a GM can allow a strength higher 10, but only the bonus to damage and secondaries ist applied, not to the lifting power. To kill all discussion, it was decided, that scores of 11+ only with inhumanity. If someone can achive inhuman action for are short period of time, he could get a score of 11+, but the moment he looses this power, he would be handled as if he had a characteristic score of 10 (but would get his powers back, the moment he could do "inhuman actions" again).

#3: My group uses the rules from the GM Toolkit. The GM decides on the "supernatural" level and the characters get starting magic level in dependence of the "supernatural level", archtype and their maximum magic level. With a "supernatural level" lower than "high", the characters can't use their full MK at the beginning to develop Ki abilities/techniques. We usually play with "high supernatural level", so a character of the "mystical archtype"-class (and only mystical) would get 80% of his maximum magic level etc.

So long.

Beadle said:

I know that it does not give a hard cap at 10 ever, and I do not believe there is any mention of any other cap officially. However, in the Monster Creation section, without the Monster Powers 'Superhuman/Supernatural Physical/Spiritual Characteristics', a Monster cannot have more than 13/15 in any stat. That said it is often used for players without Inhuman/Zen for 11/13 in Physical (as is suggested in the first chapter) and 13/15 in Mental (to reflect Monster limits).

Which brings another possible source of permanent Inhumanity and Zen: Monster Powers.

Could be aquired through Elan again, but also through sufficient Gnosis or some permanent transformation spells (e.g. Chimera or Spiritual Existence).

Rii Nagaja said:

Oh good point. I think there is an Advantage in Dominus Exxet that grants Monster Powers as well.

So lets see: Advantage, Magic, Ki, Psychic Power, Elan, Gnosis…Is there any way you can't gain Inhumanity/Zen?

Lia Valenth said:

By Advantage, do you mean one of the Blood Legacies? Because I'm sure they can do it too.

Also Race as well. I'm sure certain Nephilim get it by default.

Could get Inhumanity/Zen through a power from an artifact.

Beadle said:

The Blood of Kami legacy gives you access to inhuman actions, although it is not clearly explained if this means full inhumanity. The advantage also explicitly states you can increase the legacy, which could give you access to zen.

Blood of the Great Beasts (I believe) gives you 40/80/120DP in Monster Powers which could easily grant this. Blood of the Dragon could grant this (but the powers of that are up to the GM).

It actually can't. Because blood of the great beasts gives monster powers, and Zen is an essential ability, which Blood of the Great Beasts specifically says it can not grant.

Still, there's at least one Legacy of Blood (Kami), Race, MK, Magic, Psychic powers, Élan, artifacts…..

Quite a few ways to get Inhumanity really.

The Essential Abilities of Monster Powers are still valid too, just not for Blood of the Great Beasts.