I just got "Honour the Chapter" yesterday and there are a few chapters that I think are sort of divided and would lose some of their strengths no matter what specialty they choose.

For example, I am having a hard time understanding how to make a powerful Red Scorpion character. Their talents point them towards WS based characters. Is that just how it's going to be for them? I realize that each chapter tends to have a specialty or two that it has synergy with. Red Scorpions seems to point towards WS based characters, which I don't really get when it comes to how they work in 40k; they have always seemed more the gun type.

Also, how can Raptors (and also, Raven Guard) work out in the game when they have lots of concealment and scouting skills? Especially the Raptors who have sniping bonuses in combat? How do those look in games?

Anyways, I know probably only a few own Honour the Chapter right now. Thanks for the help!

I have heard (don't have the reference) that the special of the Raven Guard was that they don't suffer minus's to concelment from armour.

afterimagedan said:

Raven Guard have a unique Talent which makes them ignore power armor penalties when making stealth-related rolls. Their Solo Mode also boosts their stealthy skills to godly levels and grants their surprise attacks a Pen boost. Stealth helps you in two ways: you can negotiate obstacles without engaging in combat, and you can launch deadly, unavoidable surprise attacks. Raven Guard can do both with flying colors while still being fully functional, PA-clad Adeptus Astartes. To this end, their abilities can help all specialties, but they work best on Tacticals (snipers) and Assaults (flying ninja!). The way it works is really simple, you try to hide and ambush the enemy, if it works - you started the fight with a big bang, if it doesn't work - you're a Space Marine, you can take it.

Raptors, on the other hand, are born and bred snipers. Between their special weapon sights and their Solo Mode, they make the Ascension Vindicare look like a hobo with a shotgun. They are also quite stealthy, but not to the insane degree of their parent Chapter - going in scout armor is actually an option for them, or you can keep Stealth as a backup option and focus on combat marksmanship. Their talents are put to best use on Tacticals - just attach a sight and go to town with a Stalker Bolter.

afterimagedan said:

Don't forget there are plenty of missions and cercumstances where kill teams need to be stealthy. They are often deployed behind enemy lines or have secret missions that other imperial forces are not suppose to know about. So a member who specializes in stealth would often be seen as an asset. Space Marines may be OP, but even they have difficultly completing their mission if an entire army knows they're there.

afterimagedan said:

For a Raven Guard/Raptor/Wolf Scout or any bred sniper/scout-type to shine, the GM and the players have to be comfortable with splitting the party.

Don't forget that a killteam leader can use Tactics (recon and stealth) in place of concealement rolls for the killteam. I rationalise this as making good use of timing to avoid enemy patrols etc. It makes killteams who aren't solely made of stealth specialists viable in stealth missions without splitting up.

On a similar note, I do rather wonder if the fact some of these chapters don't get two attribute bonuses, and instead just get some random Talents or Skills, is ultimately going to make them weaker at the PEAK. Especially in non-random Chargen games. And again, I just mean peak, as it will be 5 less total attribute points, which can easily translate to a modifier to things like Toughness Bonus and the likes.

Dulahan said:

Pretty much. An extra Forbidden Lore in no way makes up for a +5 to Characteristic.

How exactly does the Red Scorpion's Resistance (Mutation) really matter? AFAICT, Deathwatch rules don't allow for Space Marines to mutate until after 100 Corruption, and by that point they are unplayable.

HappyDaze said:

To my knowledge, there are a few Chaos psychic powers and other stuff that can cause mutations to anyone they hit. Tzeentch Sorcerers are often fond of this.

Kerrahn said:

I have yet to see any of this in the Deathwatch game. Sure, the other gamelines might cover such, but Deathwatch doesn't seem to have anything to cover it.

I know that Bolt of Change is included in The Emperor Protects and Mark of the Xenos. Can't recall other spells with Mutation effects, though. Personally, I'm a pretty accommodating GM, so I have no real problem with lore-based Chapters and Mutation resistance and other such unorthodox things. I like the idea, personally.

Morangias said:

Agreed my fellow friend; The main thing for a raptor character is the ability to handle things alone, thats why my character is a kill-marine to handle things alone.

As for the sneaky aspect, you could just roll with it and go for a sneaky kill-team comprised of Raven Guard, Raptors and Wolf Scouts. If the players are aboard, such a team could be great fun and lead to fun and different ways to approach a mission. Sort of like Ghost Recon: 40K.

Don't know about the Red Scorpions, but I play with a guy who plays a Raptor. He does serve as our forward scout, but that scope you can take as a trapping is amazing. He's taken down some pretty high level baddies with his Stalker-Pattern and some good rolls. Raptors are strong marksmen, and the stealth skills are nice to boot. Also, you could try looking at the Carcaradons. They have an impressive mix of stealth and meele, also their psychic powers are awesome.

Yeah, I think it's called Guerilla Tactics. It's in their stuff for First Founding, but it takes away the -20 penalty imposed on Silent Move by power armor. Take with terminator armor for added hilarity.

If you want to break the game have two players roll Carcharadon librarians. One uses depths and the other uses maw. Kill everything within the maw radius.

I'm switching to a Minotaur assault marine Champion, so I'll be able to comment on that in future.

In another campaign, I'm playing a Guardian of the Covenant tactical Killmarine and I have to say Infused Knowledge starting off with a decent intelligence is very handy.