I have looking into playing a dwarf combat noble and the thane class struck me as the perfect choice.

But I am having a few problems with it, for it to become noble 2, or in the futher noble 3 i would need a noble rank 1 title and rank 3 as well.

The only basic Noble career for dwarves is the courtier and that has no combat experience. Then when choosing the rank 3 noble, dwarves only can choose the Captain. To be a captain would be lower in rank than a thane, As a thane would be in charge of captains or maybe I am thinking this wrong.

Will there be more choices for dwarves in further expansions, especially combat/noble related

Second question

Why is there Combat and Military for dwarves? Not sure why they are two different names as you would think all combat dwarves would have military experience being constantly at war with greenskins and skaven. Reason I am asking is due to it would make a skill point to buy the new career as they are worded differently. Sergeant and Captain are military. But Thane is combat.

Career traits exist pretty much for one reason: They are a rules hold-over from 2nd edition's "career exits." They're just words, that usually make sense, but house ruling with your GM may be a wise choice.

jh

DurakBlackaxe said:

All dwarfs (at least from Karak Azgaraz) can begin with Weapon Skill trained, as such the Courtier career could be a great choice. As your combat training can come from the dwarf racial ability and the noble stuff from the career.

Captain is simply a name for the career. Look at it as your thane developing his military and tactical training even further. He'd still be a thane.

Also, you could alternate between combat and noble careers, you do not have to have both in all the careers you go through. When your character is focusing more on the fighting aspects, go into a combat career. When he's focusing on the noble and social side of things, pick a noble career.

DurakBlackaxe said:

Military in my opinion feels more like actual military training, discipline and marching all over the world. While combat is a narrower field which only focuses on the actual fighting. Combat can be one-on-one, a small group of bandits could be considered to combat oriented, but they would certainly not be regarded as military characters. I don't have the careers here at the moment, but for example a slayer would not be considered "military", but they are combat oriented.

But as Emirikol wrote, talk to your GM and ask if Combat = Military is a house rule you could use in your group (but I myself would probably not allow it in my group).

I don't know how the noble rules work, but I can tell you something about a Thane.

The Title for example is not a military one, as the Thane of the Mining Clan for example isn't part of the military. As a Thane from the stoneworker Clan for example isn't that combat oriented and more into leading dwarfs on a building project and caluclating constructions. For that reason Thanes are elected by their wisdom and expertise in a set surrounding. If he fails epic he will lose this title, and a normal member of that clan can become a Thane through his skill.

So a Thane is translated as dwarven prince, but something more like a department manager. True is that he and his family will rise through that title in their social standing among the hold. For bachelor dwarfs it is a garantee to find a wealthier dwarf women. (see Grudgekeeper)

That why he is more a combat orientated character as he is not part of the official standing army of a dwarven hold like a sergeant, or captn. Also there is actually only a small real full time army around any Karak as their troops consists mostly of conscripted clansdwarfs in time of war. This usually leads to a complete halt in production while away from the hold, so the dwarfs like to have their wars short.

Part of a standing military of the dwarfs are the Ironbreakers and Scouts for securing the ways above and underground. And the Hammerers as the kings bodyguards. Veterans of these turn into the Longbeards special Units. Something like the navy seals of old dwarfs. The other guards and outpost troops are also part of the warrior clans, or clans from a complete different background, given the duty to do this job. The clan have to pay and equip these troops. The mentioned troops are also part of a non warrior clan but do the job nevertheless. (see Warhammer Online, text in one of the dwarven towers around Barak Varr)

So a usual career for the Thane might start with the Agent career, like the demo character from Black Fire Pass and then develops into the Thane.

On the other hand is a possible that the Thane is really from the noble clan of the hold. This dwarf is send to learn to lead dwarfs as his purpose. He is send to other clan elders to learn their craft (with the exception of the runesmith clan) and will later return to the court to work as advisors, ambassadors or administrators. (See Stone and Steel). Also here any good working dwarven job is suitable for the entry into the Thane career as the dwarf has to learn first a proper job before he takes on the duties of a Thane.

So combat instead of military makes sense. And hopefully we will get some dwarven noble careers in the future.

I did two careers with the noble trait for dwarfs, Dwarf Noble and Dwarf Prince.

You can find them in my signature (Secrets of the Anvil) and see if they fit both your group and your game concept; or may be they don't but they give you ideas for customizing your one Dwarf noble careers.

Cheers

Thanks for your input. Will look at your player crafted careers.

Will talk to my GM about military = combat. Just for Thane and Ironbreakers.

Since the ironbreakers are a military unit, in battles, but are classed as combat. But then again soldier is a military and a combat unit. I got to thinking maybe they could be the same thing, but your are right, trollslayers wouldnt be a military type, as they are mainly out for a glorious death.

My idea for my character was a military leader noble, starting off a rank 1 with a party of dwarves who he leads on a military/diplomacy mission, My problem is I seemingly can only do this at rank 2 - Thane. The Captain is perfect for rank 3 expect for that combat - military and idea that a thane is higher in rank than a captain. So a dwarf lord career to fill that rank be better. But maybe i can combine the thane captain idea to call myself something else

Humans have a few choices for noble combat at rank one, pistolier, duelist etc. I just cant think what a rank 1 noble combat would be for a dwarf.

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Comman Dwarf

Soldier -> Sergeant -> Captain

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Noble Dwarf

? -> Thane -> Dwarf Lord would be my idea.

Couldnt work out how to edit my post above.

Was reading old warhammer fantasy roleplay, the prequisite to Thane was Dwarf Noble career. Which lead to thane, which led to dwarf lord.

Likely be Basic, Noble, Social The last option doesnt really have to be combat, but I like the idea, as a dwarf noble being trained in arms from birth.

I read your Dwarf Lord and Prince. Pretty well done, Not sure of the prince name, sounds pretty much too high a rank for a player, but the idea is good. Dont think you get to be a prince in any of the other races?

I just wait and see what comes out in the future

DurakBlackaxe said:

It was a career done to match those of Hero's Call, but first of all, it has to match your idea of campaign. If you find a Prince title beign too much for a PC then don't include it in your games or change the name to Dwarf Lord Lord . Although if you ask me it can be fun to play, for both GM and PC.

Do you find the titles of Wizard Lord or Arch Lector more suitables for a PC than a Prince?

Yepesnopes said:

Sorry, I didnt mean to offend. I only meant for my character, I didnt mean to say you couldnt be a dwarf prince.

I am okay with Wizard Lord and Arch Lector as they are earned titles.For me, a prince is a prince from birth, it is not a career. Its just my own view on this.

I know Warhammer has, high king, king, prince and lord. Plus the crafts peerage, which seems to be a voted title.

I think i will go for the title High Lord, Grand Lord or Great Lord.

DurakBlackaxe said:

No, no. I was not offended, I guess it is easy to misinterpret feelings or emotions in a written text, especially since English is not my native language (as you may have noticed).