impaulm said:

for A Game of Thrones LCG, they do if they reprint the expansion, otherwise, I'm not aware of any pure reprints. I don't think most gaming companies do this (of course, some do).

The Janitor said:

Yeah, I'm very frustrated and disappointed with shadow cards staying around as well as having to still resolve an attack from an enemy that was returned to the staging area. Seriously? I can't attack an enemy in the staging area except by card effects, why should "disengaged" enemies get the privilege? And Zigil Miner was cut at the knees. He's still around, but much less effective.

Golden_Nightingale said:

This isn't what the new rule adjustment is saying. If you push a card into the staging area, then it dose not attack. All this rule is saying is that if teh card makes a legal atatck out side of the combat step.. say thoug the use of Ambush, then it is also delt a shadow card.. just like a normal attack.

Golden_Nightingale said:

Well not really.. I mean ANY card can be used.. but the question is .. is it of any use.. will it evr see play over anything else.. Like Dark Knowledge.. sure you can use it.. but dose anyone use it? Ziggy has been so baldly stuffed that it is now a completely irrelevant card that no one will ever use. They had a ton of options… even a strait up banning would have been better than what they did. They still haven't made a "restricted" list so they could have started there, they could have made it a single copy a deck, they could have made him unique so only one goes on the table. They could have done a lot of things to "fix" this card..

Think about what this card dose now.. it discards 2 cards to gain at the most 2 resources, and in all truth most likely you will only ever be pulling 1. With SoG, Resourceful, the other resource engines and not even counting the Hero and Song splash cards.. why would ANYONE ever play this card now.. 1 resource is just no worth it. It has discard sure, but when you stack that vs the new "draw a card" leadership guy or the 2 discard to block / attack allies… well again.. if your looking for a discard effect… there are better options.

Ziggy wasn't fixed… he was simple made unplayable.. they ****** up twice with this guy… really terrible.

The Janitor said:

Unneeded errata? The Beravor + Protector of Lorien + Unexpected courage combination was obviously broken. the win-loss ratio of decks built around that engine was way to high.

Bohemond said:

totally… in gerneral I think this is a really good update and as the news article said.. it WILL preserve the health of the game as well as providing "official" room for future game design choices… good stuff FFG… I'll just put Ziggy in the same spot I hold the Star Wars prequel… as in pretend this nvr existed.

booored said:

i agree with you completely

I think they should've compromised with Ziggy, and let him give the player 2 resources if one of the discarded cards you correctly named had a listed cost of 2 or higher. As it is now, BOTH discarded cards have to have the same cost to get 2 resources. I think I may house rule it using my compromise idea.

I welcome all these changes. I use Ziggy myself, but not his ability, as my decks consists mostly of low cost cards. The guy can give you 2 WP for a cost of 2 resources, if you have Dain, and there are only few spirit dwarfs to play. I think he is still worth his money, and his ability can help in crucial momants, like when you really need to play some card combos, but you lack one resource to do it. I mean how often did I sit there with four resources and front of me and Gandalf in my hand?

I also like all the errata, including that of Zigil Miner. He still can be used (combo with Gildor or Stargazer) to create 1 or more probably 2 resources. Even if you don't use such combos, if you know your deck well, chances are good that you get 1 res. And this is just the value it should be. Leadership is the sphere which should excell on resouce generation. Not Spirit. The combos with Zigil were better than Steward of Gondor. Now Zigil is more like Horn of Gondor: a nice addition, but not as good as the card of the sphere which focuses on that theme. (And spirit has got more of such cards: Ancient Mathom is IMO the best non-hero card to make you draw cards. It should be in the Lore sphere. And Stargazer manipulates the draw deck. It should be in the Lore sphere too, like Gildor.) Zigil is still a good character (cost 2, every stat 1) and with Dain he's even better.

I don't really understand all this rage about the new game text of Zigil Miner.

Sure it comes from Totally Broken Land and goes down to a blue Steward of Gondor, but it's still way enough to want to play it. Stargazer + 2 Zigil Miner will still consistently provide 3-4 ressources per turn, plus making some cards accessible in the graveyard without drawing them.

With all that, you still have a ally body that can quest, and a great one if Dain is play… if that's your definition of "unplayable", you sure have high standards of card playbility

He still can be used (combo with Gildor or Stargazer) to create 1 or more probably 2 resources/

you can consistently pull 1 a turn, to pull 2 you need to have two cards in a a row with the same value… this is at a cost of 2 card discards. This is unplayable imo.. as yes yo u"can" play him.. like you can play any card.. like you can say play dark knowledge… but no one ever will.

Zigil is still a good character (cost 2, every stat 1) and with Dain he's even better.

The comments about him as a 2:1/1/1 have nothing to do with this conversation. If your running him as a quester with Dain or w/e then you are NOT using his ability you are talking about completely ignoring his ability.. How is this not killing the card?

booored said:

Because it was heavily overpowered and now it's "only" a standard card. Better than Wandering Took, better than WRT, better than Lórien Guide. This is perhaps how the card was supposed to be - otherwise his stats would have been 0/0/1. A player only uses his ability if he desperatly needs moe resources - that's how I played him even before the errata.

booored said:

In some of my solo decks, I've chosen to play Leadership only because of Steward of Gondor. The errata'd version of Zigil in combination if Stargazer provides an alternative. You can modify 5 cards with Stargazer. Chances are good that you have 2 cards with matching costs. The cost of discarding 2 isn't that high - either you have some cards granting you additional draws (then you'll want to have Will of the West anyway) or you don't, and then you usually see only half of your player card deck, and some additional discarding doesn't matter.

Additionally, you have to keep some characters ready and not quest with them because you don't know if and how many enemies will be added to the staging area. And when no enemy is added, you sit on your ready characters. With Zigil Miner, you cna keep a character with 1 or 2 attack strength in reserve, and if he isn't needed, you can use him to generate resources.

booored said:

His stats have to do with this conversation. When talking about "killing a card", everything has to be considered. Zigil Miner is 1 card. With its stats AND text box.

If Dain is in play, I still prefer Zigil Miner over West Road Traveller, because he has equal cost and equal willpower strength. But additionally, he has 2 attack strength, has his ability to help me when resources are needed, and has the Dwarf trait (Legacy of Durin, Lure of Moria etc.).

HilariousPete said:

I think this is really bad thinking. Your talking about discarding 2 cards for an effect that requires a 2nd card to function properly. So in stargazers case you are sacrificing a 2 drop and then neither stargazer or ziggy can quest to be able to use his effect and then you are saying you need to cycle your entire discard pile back into your deck to get back all those cards that you lost though ziggy. That is stupid expensive in relation to SoG or Resourceful or Gloin etc etc.

HilariousPete said:

no they do not have anything to do with it. ANY card can be played as a body to be used as a blocker or a small quester.. Keen Eyed Took for example.. can be played like this.. BUT it is the card ability that makes it unique and decides if a card has value to a deck construction idea. We are talking about his ability not his function as a blocker or an ally as this hasn't been changed at all. You could compleatly blank his text box and what you are saying would still be true. No one is saying that his "body" has chnaged and become worthless.. we are talking about his ability

not really.. my comparison was just to illustrate that there are cards in the game and that is one of them were the effect has no meaning as there are cards witch make it redundant or its cost makes it not viable.

Your right though… Keen Eyed Took is the more "correct" example.

As a weaker player, I needed all the help I could get. Even with a massive card draw deck and UC on Beravor, I couldn't consistently win with PoL. Zigil Miner was also one that I only used occasionally and to little effect, seeing as I had no peeking cards available to me. To me, these changes just made a hard game even harder and I'm not happy about it. I'm totally with Booored in regards to Zigil Miner. I didn't even get chance to use him properly. I agree with jingmelingpa (sp?) who said that making him take two resources if one of the cards matched the named number.

At the end of the day, there's no tournament and I can play how I want, but the game will always have the bitter taste of either "well it used to be played like this" or "well I still play it this way, even though it's technically wrong now." I guess experienced CCGers have been dealing with errata for years, but it's really turning me off.

EDIT: I like how Rule Clarification 1.10 still refers to unlimited PoL action in the same document where they errata'ed that card. Is that an oversight, or is it to show consistency between FAQs?

Budgernaut said:

Ahhh… Good catch! :-) That should probably change it's wording a little bit yeah.

/wolf

Cool cool. Agree with everything. Pol, Beravur and Zigy get what they deserve.

I use to play Baravur with this errata already for last 6 months anyway.

Agree with Pol too. Now this combo is broke and game will be more interesting.

What about new Glorifindel? threat value 5? Is crazy powerful too! I think he will get his correction when tourny system come.

Glaurung said:

i hope not -some cards are meant to be powerful - glorfindel isnt broke….he's just an interesting take on a hero. if we start throwing cards down the drain justs because they are more powerful than others, then whats the point in playing at all?

the whole point of glorfindel is his low threat….get rid of that and you have a handsome fella with a sword- nothing more

i would be very dissapointed if they errated glorfindel

rich

I decided to put my cards where my mouth was. I built a deck that incorporated Beravor, Unexpected Courage, Zigil Miner, and Protector of Lorien. The idea was to build it as I would before this new FAQ. Then I played Passage Through Mirkwood using the new errata. Granted, this is supposed to be a fairly easy scenario. I got two PoL on Frodo, but never needed to discard more than three cards. I never got UC out, so Beravor only ever used her ability once per round anyway. I got Zigil Miner out on the very last round but had Steward of Gondor anyway so didn't need Zigil Miner's resources. So basically, none of the new changes affected my game at all. It's probably different for more advanced scenarios, but considering I hardly ever use Lore anyway, this FAQ isn't really going to affect me as much as I complained it would.

And I realized that Gildor Inglorian gives me peeking abilities to use in combo with Zigil Miner, so I was wrong about that too.

(1.27) Bypass the active location
The only time an active location does not act as a buffer for progress to be placed on a quest is when card text specifically instructs the players to “bypass” the active location.

So it mean when i have a tool and exhaust a hero to put token on the quest card(Flight from Moria quest) if there is a active location token will be placed on active location? Right?

yes that is correct… this is how it has always been isn't it?

booored said:

Yes. Unless the card explicitly bypass, Current Location always "soaks" Progress.

/wolf

Glaurung said:

In your case the quest card explicitely states " Exhaust a hero to put a progress token on Escape from Darkness ". There's no much room for interpretation here. The golden rule applies and the card text overrules the lack of the "bypass" keyword. So no, the progress token would be placed on the quest card. Note that this is not about "progress" or "quest cards" in general, but specifically about " Escape from Darkness ".