thorin- as expected really- artwork already spoiled early in the game, nice ability in a dwarf deck, still not as good as dain?? though with a couple of erebor record keepers and a 3 dwarf hero deck he could be collecting 2 resources by the early rounds

others had already been spoiled but nice to see an english version- both great cards

i like the designer's take on the characters- especially gandalf and the party being terrified and relaxed when he comes and goes

NOTE the 'at least ONE famous hobbit' - probably getting another then?

I have really enjoyed these new cards and Hero previews lately. I have been excited to try every new hero since the beginning of Dwarrowdelf and Thorin looks just as great! With Dain in play he has 4 willpower and strength! Leadership has some serious willpower now, and I am looking forward to some new deck building possibilities.

impaulm said:

yes there is a good combo potential with dain - though threat is rather high do you think?

rich

What I have been hoping from Leadership was a lower threat cost hero but I do like Thorin nonetheless.

Fifty play cards the designer says. That means in two boxes I feel. Thus I count 25 per box with 5 unique to the Hobbit saga only (Bilbo, Baggin's player card, 3 Treasures), 4 heroes (to make the ottaly of 5) and likely one per sphere and 16 the rest, the player cards. Does that sound about right?

richsabre said:

Quite a few Dwarven cards seem to be meant (or working best) for 2 (or more) decks. Thorin and Dain may be a good example of that. With both in a deck, you're looking for 30 starting threat at least (with Bifur) unless Dwarves get a Glorindel kind of a hero.

Earlier today I had a thought. Shall we ever see an ally of cost 0. Like a real chump of say 0/0/1+1 stats? I think all is but inevitable. A Dwarf like that could boost some of their strategies already - like the Battle Master (not that he needs any more boosting), Legacy of Durin, or now Thorin.

lleimmoen said:

i would think so- it would probably be a real conditional ally, only useful in a certain situation, or a certain combo. or perhaps it has negative effects on use

rich

lleimmoen said:

I was thinking that would mean 5 new heroes and about 15 new cards (x 3 copies) in the first expansion, but maybe you're right. Just for comparison I looked again at Khazad-dum. It had 11 player cards with 3 copies each plus 2 heroes. So it looks like we'll be getting more player cards in these expansions! Sweet!

i wonder why thorin was spoiled when the game was released? it was on tiziano's site as well

I found Thorin to be a little underwhelming personally. I'm not in love with the art and his starting threat is quite high. Stats are good but his ability most likely wont come into play until the 2nd turn.

While he combos well with Dain (well what dwarf doesnt…) I think he'd excel best if it was those two plus Dwalin. The blue sphere gives you access to Galadhrim's Greeting plus Dwalin alone can lower threat. Quest with Thorin, Attack with Dwalin, Defend with Dain. Using blue also gives you Ever my Heart Rises which u can give to Thorin to be able to take advantage of his two best stats both Questing and Attack. Dunedain marks can be used on Dwalin to ensure you kill the orcs and lower your threat.

Love both the new Gandalf and Sting. You can just abuse Gandalf in a deck using the new Aragorn or Glorfindel and Sting is just super powerful. Artwork for both those cards is fantastic as well.

So this is just speculation.. but treasure cards are the new mechanic right.. were you find items during the quest in the encounter deck and then use them in more than one quest making a campaign.

So.. dose this mean sting is not able to be used in player decks? Or do you have to place it in the encounter deck each time?

Like we do not use objectives in out own decks.. how is this different?

richsabre said:

yeah, his threat is very high… still at 4 will … hmm.. mighty tempting.. not sure how you could use him in a solo game but having a single player runnign 1 or 2 heroes in mltiplayer and have it this guy would do very well.

Seriously, another high cost Leadership hero? I know there was a Spirit hero in FOS, but come on, how about a high cost (10+) Spirit hero. Hell, Leadership has more 10+ heroes than those under 10 while Spirit (who could have the threat reduction) has none at 10+!

Pharmboys2013 said:

Pharmboys2013 said:

Lore combos just as well if not better for Dwarves than Spirit does, I think. You get the cheap allies, Record-keeper, Hammersmith, Miner and the Legacy of Dúrin, for instance.

Dam said:

i think that has themeatic reasoning behind it- after all the leaders will draw the eye of sauron more

Pharmboys2013 said:

Gotta agree with lleimmoen on the Green Dwarves, they add as much as the blue will.

You DID take the words out of my mouth for my thoughts on Thorin, though. I wasn't blown away, to put it mildly. Artwork wasn't at the level as recent heroes have been. And since I won't run him with Dain (more in a second), his gametext is only kinda…. meh. Why not with Dain? Realistically, because I love my green AND blue additions to the Dwarven deck. Running two high-threat leadership dwarves in a single deck borders on near absurdity (apologies if anyone thinks that too strong a term), for a number of reasons. I will not go so far as to say it CAN'T be done… lol… just don't see the logic. To do so means you:

1) Give up either a green or blue hero to draw in the much-needed support from those spheres (sorry Red, as always you are relegated to my 2nd dwarven deck). So now you're adding Songs to your deck to bring in those other allies/events you need from that third (or fourth if you want the red) sphere. Again, YES it can be done, it just forces you to raise your card count OR drop other cards that are valuable to your synergy. No bueno.

2) Start with unnecessarily hight threat, forcing you to use Dwalin (and I do, but I will admit his threat reduction response doesn't trigger as often as you might hope sometimes), or to include more threat reduction in your hand (or hope to high heaven you keep pulling Gandalf and Sneak Attack throughout the game). Again, starts messing with your synergy and count.

3) On the plus side, Thorin's ability is perfectly suited to Dwarven themes in the game…. sheer numbers. You can get a good number of them out for cheap and early, and getting an extra resource is always welcome. However, you can gather that extra resource by simpler means (Steward…, Zigil, etc…) that are most likely already in your deck (please tell me they're in your deck… lol).

4) Another plus, his willpower and attack are great (and with Dain's bump, puts him up there with the Holy Grail of questing, Eowyn). And since none of his gametext is tied to specific phases (questing, defend, attack… like Dwalin, for instance), he really becomes a "utility" hero…. he can be used for pretty much anything. Yeah his 1 defence doesn't do anything for him, but with solid starting HP, he becomes perfectly suited to team with the red dwarves for fighting…

So what this means (I don't claim that everyone else's approach should be the same) is that Thorin will be a perfect fit as the "leader" of a second dwarven deck that can be played alongside the first (led by Dain). This gives him the best of both worlds. Pair him with a red or two (or Gloin), and create a minion-slaying gang that can keep the pressure off of Dain's questing crew…

Of course, this all could change based on Orcrist's game text does for him…

So with the scheduled release of "Mid-August" being just around the corner, will I be playing Shadow and Flame this weekend?

Bullroarer Took said:

doubt it….i reckon we have another preview to go, and if youre like me and live in europe- probably another fortnight/3 weeks….and my supplier usually gets it a week later…so a month for me ….wah!

richsabre said:

I thought they said that FaS is coming out this week? Or did I misunderstand the question?

www.fantasyflightgames.com/edge_news.asp?eidn=3437

(Edited to add link)

(Edited again to correct stupid link-altering function of the editor)

Pharmboys2013 said:

I guess he kinda does look like Hagrid from Harry Potter… Still, very fun to try 2-player, with Dain in the other deck.

Edit: Just to be clear, I really do like Baracchi's contribution to the game. Great stuff!

benhanses said:

You did not misunderstand the question, I missed where they said it was coming out next (this) week. And since I nearly always get it Thursday of release week I will be playing by the weekend. Thanks.

benhanses said:

ah i missed that also- still it doesnt change the fact that us poor sods in europe will be waiting another fortnight- 3 weeks for it…i only hope picture spoilers are put up on the internet quicker than last time

I dislike spoilers.. I read the previews from ffg but i nvr look at full lists. I think it really ruins the surprise of the quest when you first play it. You open teh pack read teh quest then can tool a new deck using teh new player cards… all that fun gone

What do you guy think about the treasure card… can it be used in normal decks liek a player card?

all of FFG's articles about the treasures state that they must be "earned" from the encounter deck and then, and only then, can they be included in subsequent scenarios in the story line. if you didn't find it in the first play through, you can't play it in the subsequent scenario(s).

of course, you can decide to play with it if you want, no matter what, but it seems like no, it cannot be in your deck. it sounds like the quests are designed to be played one right after the other, so the heros "stay in play" between quests and the treasure is still attached, it never enters the deck.

yeah that is what it looks like.. kind of like an objective.. but it says in the trailer that it is a "player card" I am more woundering aboout when you build decks for other quests… like do you put it in teh encounter deck or somthing?

booored said:

They almost certainly will only be relevant in some sort of linked campaign (Nightmare mode, or whatever similar variant is introduced in the boxed set). I suspect they'll have player card backs (the ring design) but have special scenario rules setting them aside (a la The Watcher). They'll probably be "unlocked" by exploring a certain location or progressing past a particular quest stage. Then, when you play the next scenario(s) in that progression, you can include the treasures in your draw deck. But it seems like you won't be able to just put treasures in your deck and play, say, Massing at Osgiliath. They only work within Hobbit scenarios, and only if you play those scenarios as a connected campaign.

I'm particularly intrigued by Caleb's revelation that treasures are immune to effects that target attachments. From the FAQ, we know that treasures should count as attachments (as any card that attaches to another card is considered an attachment in addition to its other types). So, there must be an explicit rule granting treasures this special protection.