Heya fellow UFS'ers.

After my 3 page Kyoshiro Vs. Donovan article we were able to accurately presume that Donny boyo (piloted by yohannnhairrrr....) was in fact the superior charcter!

However midway through someone who's forum name escapes me claimed that Hanzo has the almighty rejection to fend off Donny boy and the Ibuki artist.

Recently, though i've been thorughly playtesting Hanzo against all opposition ( way more than 3 rounds this time, Havoc.) And, well I came to the conclusion that Rejection just ins't that fantastic outside of looping it to be perfectly honest.

The G-team to Reject loop is fine and dandy but Hanzo doesn't have access to that sort of thing, henceforth i'm using cutting edge instead. I think it's better seeing as:

• It's got arguably better stats and matches 2 symbols to Hanzo.
• Can save me when Rejection cannot.
• Commitable foundation with 2/5 and a mid block!
• Doesn't clog my hand, hence making me a 6HS er.

SO i pose the question.... Is rejection actually worth it outside of looping it endlessly?

Cheers

Hanzo.

Yes.

I think it's a terrible shame that we've come to look at Rejection as a looping ultimate defense. It's got good stats, a decent block with Breaker: 2, and can save you if they throw an attack you don't have a full block for.

The only reason Rejection is seen as "not worth it" now is because The Gorgeous Team set the bar too high with being able to use it on every attack. Oh, and also the fact that Evil has fallen out of favour, but the card does have two other symbols on it.

Cascade said:

On the other hand.

It's not seen as good without it having to be recurred. Every symbol on it can recur Rejction in one way or another. So why not? otherwise it honestly just clogs you up.

A low block with breaker:2 means squat in the era of bitter rivals. Also it's a low block so it doesn't help AS MUCH if it were a mid block it'd be much more crazy!

That said Your own bitter rivals would help you out there.

Ultimately, G team indeed did set the bar too high, refer to my first post. Again: "why use Rejection, if you can't loop it?"

Rejection has fallen out of favour because the current trend is multiples (Spike, Hoyoku, Lunar, Reppa etc) which it isn't as effective against since it only stops 1, but with the release of set 11 I think we'll start seeing one shots with Powerful again (Fire Kick, Sonic Boom Extra) which are exactly up Rejection's alley. That in mind I still think Rejection is horribly undercosted for what it does.

So long as Order isn't on Rejection, I doubt people will see it as worth it. Players tend to look at one single symbol and claim it is overpowered, even though most will use another symbol for the kill.

Even then, there are plenty of ways to recur rejection outside of the gorgeous team. Kabuki Artist and abomination immediatly come to mind. Your character just needs to have order, wind, chaos or void and one of the symbols on rejection to get it back, and there are one shot decks out there that definalty go down to it. Mostly I'm thinking of mountain and everyone's favorite Sardine's Beach Special, but also RSS and fire kick come to mind in other decks that gain a bunch of momentum and then unorthodox training your hand away. VS. Hanzo of course, Rejection is just god awful and should be sided out for something that stops loops, but that does not discount the fact that it has a lot of uses.

Also, maybe people arn't playing it as often, but I don't really think evil has fallen much out of favor. It has Red Lotus and Oral Dead along with revenents calling that could make it a fairly nightmarish matchup for order, as well as Chester's Backing which is still stupid as ever. Tack on Charismatic, G-team/rejection, bitter rivals, a beautiful nightmare (Great at stopping those lord of the makai's from hitting the staging area) and I think there may be a bit of a winner there. The only current problem with evil is that it has some mediocre kill conditions as well as some really mediocre momentum gain.

Makingsenseofus said:

It has Ways of Punishment, arguably one of the best set-ups for a kill in the game.

Rejection will always be used since if your opponent doesn't know you have it can completely destroy attacks with huge pumps . Not only that but it can be recurred with G team all day . Cutting edge is good but I fail to see how that stops loops since it can't reduce to 0 . IF your talking about something like Amy's assistance then yes Amy's is better for loops.

Scubadude said:

Except after it's committed, which you have to do for it's cost.

what...in the HELL are we discussing here?

Rejection is the reason behind the popular "who blocks these days?" banter. It's the best reduction card EVER made, and IMO, is far too overpowered. How on God's green Earth could this card "fall out of favor"? I've heard and seen decks that use the card off-symbol, because it's just that good. Rejection truly does make up for a block; why block when you could gain 3 then take 1?

Looping Rejection is one of the reason Defender is brokesauce and Hybrid Style is AWESOME. Either way, I am immensely missing out on what in the Hell you guys are talking about. I haven't heard jack about the card losing popularity, mostly becuase any Evil/Life/Water player will tell you it's pretty much a staple, loopable or not.

actually...

I can think of a few evil decks I don't bother with it maindeck... I just simply don't have the room when there are more important cards to be put in the deck.

that being said, someone above me mentioned any reason NOT to run rejection is that if you can't loop it, it doesn't do much to multiples. I mean sure, rejection might save you from one Lunar Slash for 13, but what about the other two? However, it is a very powerful card (duh) and it's usefulness against big kill decks or Float a Brick shenanigans has already been proved, and even against multiples it's useful. However, against an Air deck or a loop deck, I rather run Siberian Training.

simply put. Yeah, it's useful. It's not nearly as stupid good with just 4x copies and no way to recur as it was in block 2, but it will still see play and if you rely on one big kill, you best be running anti-tech against it.

quarzark said:

Are you saying their aren't ways to recur it now or back in block 2 cause there are tons of ways of recurring them for both .

Scubadude said:

nope, the "4x copies and no way to recur it" could also be read as "4x copies WITH no way to recur it" stating as a deck in block 2 could get away with simply running 4 copies and not have to worry about recurring it because once someone goes for the kill in block 2, the easiest way to do it was to go attack, hammer, hammer, hammer.

im running 3 in my adon deck and its off of wind not water it just screams run me because i have such low vitality i run the risks of getting one shoted easily although most of the deck also has water but still

its just saved me so many times from being killed......its also fun to block with it and then reversal with jaguar thousand and use adons react to make it free because at that point its 7 speed with the breaker 2 and on your opponents turn i dont think there going 2 block it much

quarzark said:

I understand that but there was still military rank if they ran it off symbol and G team to get it back after they hammer time . Also this was the same time injury assets were still legal so I think most decks ran 3 rejection main and maybe one in board.

I can't believe this discussion is seriously taking place.

Like, my mind is blown that anybody could come to the conclusion that Rejection isn't worth using outside of looping.

Just...there are no words.

Yeah seriously folks. Rejection.... Back in block two there was everyone and their mother screaming for it to be banned because it was too OP.

Now it's in theory even MORE retarded in block 3 with the 5 bagillion ways for it to be recurred. How exactly is it not worth running? Please enlighten me.

B-Rad said:

i will enlighten you. it is always worth running if you our using evil, water, or life as your main symbol. yeah, use rejection people.

B-Rad said:

Thats what people are saying....that it IS worth running if your recurring it

Just not worth if your not looping/recurring it somehow whether it be hybrid style or G Team or whatever your method is

People should just stop one shotting i built a hanzo deck that would laugh at rejection and keep on playing his turn until your dead....

Da_ghetto_gamer said:

Ya know, a lot of people built a Hanzo deck and found the same thing. Interestingly enough, at the GCC, there were only 2 Hanzo decks in singles, but 4 in teams. The deck is brutal, but luckily diversity stops it from being the only thing people run. So yes, Hanzo is great against rejection, but that is just one deck.

And people can't just stop oneshotting when it is so viable in the format with all of the discard and powerful attacks everywhere. The real problem here is that aggro has a hard time being viable when BRT hacks out its finisher, when battleprowess releaves the control player of his/her formerly taken vitality, when a recurable rejection is enough to stop them from taking the killing damage and then allows it to stabilize on the next turn. Adding on the fact that an aggro deck has to make some tough checks early game while having worse checks in the deck to do it on, it kindof limits your options on what deck to build.

Hanzo is easy mode. He can kill someone turn 2 by just NOT RUNNING 2 CHECKS. If every deck could do that, then no, rejection would probably not be very viable. But those who don't want to be forced into diversity by running a character with one heckuva brokesauce loop have to get a bit more creative. One shots are viable because control is viable. Aggro has become more viable as of set 11 but is not in the place it needs to be to succeed because Mountain is a fantastic symbol and takes aggro and smushes it into the ground depending on how your running it. Other viability can be found in feline spike (due to its ability to virtually one shot many decks at the cost of 2 momentum) or defender loop, which is actually fairly balenced due to the amount of pieces you need (Defender, lotm, 2 megaspikes) but can be abused with rejection. Backed up with enough control, those can an often DO get passed rejection. But once again, not everyone runs that kind of deck.

Telling people to stop one shotting is kind of ironic coming from someone who is playing a deck with the best kill condition in the format right now. Because there is no equal to that in the meta. No other deck can consistantly out control an opponent while setting up a kill that once it goes off will always take out X vitality where X equals your opponents vitality. In GCC teams, Hanzo always went up against the high vitality character, because vitality doesn't matter to him.

Just saying "Run Hanzo" is not a good enough answer for stopping rejection.

I don't care if you can't loop it. If your character shares any symbols with Rejection, it should AT THE VERY LEAST be side-boarded. No excuses.

And on the matter of evil falling out of favor-Just you wait. I doubt that fact will hold true for long.

Da_ghetto_gamer said:

I ran 4 Rejection mainboarded in my Air Andrew Olexa deck at Desert Wars.

I was not recurring it.

i am also running 4 mained rejections in a certain Interpol Agent's AIR Deck

it's too good to pass up, even off of the main resource you play.

I maindecked 3 in my primarily Death Cody deck at the SAS, it saved my ass multiple times that tournament.

If you feel like you're getting stuck with them, remember the review step. You'll rarely catch me going through it without pitching a card...

I tend to dual resource just to get Rejection in the deck if I can help it! And I don't loop it very often. I only tend to play Hybrid Style loops if there is something else in the deck worth running it on, like Turnabout or Annu Mutsube, but Rejection sees a lot of play in a lot of my (and other people in my meta's) decks.