I would like to ask those of you, lads, who played/play both these games for making some brief comparison.

I know what I can expect from Starcraft , but because I only briefly looked to TE rules, I do not know what to really expect of it:

It seems to me now that:

a) Both games are scifi-themed. Both has more races and in both you build galaxy and conquer it later.

b) 3 races in SC are significantly different, but what about differences among races in TE - there are cca 10 races. Is it not a too big number?

c) In TE have all races same technology tree and have same units (as I read from rules). That may be a little boring, but as for reasons of balance it is a simple solution.

d) In TE is probably more emphasized even non-combat mechanisms (politics, trade, ...)

e) How it is with a multiplayer in TE, what is minimal "reasonable" number of players?

Thanks for your feedback.

Indeed Twilight Imperium (not Empire - TI3 in short, because it's the 3rd edition) has a much bigger focus on politics and trade - things that aren't even really touched in StarCraft. Your assessment is pretty spot-on. I'll try to expand a bit.

• (a) Yep, both are SciFi-themed - differences do exist though. For one, TI3 is mostly space-combat-centered, with just one kind of generic Ground Force sitting around on and garrisoning planets (with the expansion, Shock Troops are added, which are basically just stronger Ground Forces). SC on the other hand primarily revolves around planetary combat, with every planet having multiple areas that provide different benefits, and everything that is in space are transports that are never really involved in combat - so, one could say, TI3's scale is a bit bigger, while SC has way more detail in ground combat.
• (b, c) The 3 races in SC have different units and tech trees and everything, so they really are entirely different. With the expansion, every faction gets unique leadership cards (read, powers, basically), adding even more variety.
  TI3 on the other hand does have the same tech trees and unit types, but what differs are starting techs and starting units - making quite a difference already. Additionally, every race in TI3 has unique powers that really lay down a basic strategy - some races are stronger in combat (N'orr, Letnev), others are good diplomats (Xxcha), others excel at trade (Hacan). Together with the many options to influence the game (for example, a Hacan player can fuel the entire galaxy's economy with his large income, and bribe people left and right), this adds ample variety. Plus, it's very easy to create custom races, and there are tons of them on community sites. The number of races is not too big at all IMHO, they really all are different (although not all equally strong really).
• (d) Trade, SC doesn't have that, while trade agreements are a strong political tool in TI3. SC's politics mainly revolve around "who's in the lead now, whom do I have to attack?", while TI3 has more hidden information and thus it's not always clear who's in the lead, and diplomacy becomes tremendously important. In fact, politics are what really shapes the TI3 game, and the ingame political cards are only a very, very minor part of that. SC on the other hand is mostly about unit matchups and rock-paper-scissor mechanics, outwitting the opponent on the battlefield.
• (e) I've played TI3 with 2 players, it's possible and fun. Personally, I find it plays best with 4-6 players, nice tradeoff of politics and game length - with the expansion, up to 8 players can participate, they better all be freaks then though. SC scales way better with player numbers though, it's great with 2-6 players really (6 if everybody knows the rules, otherwise the game takes way too long).
• Game mechanics, something you haven't touched but I think is important: TI3 makes it really important that you have a large fleet and know how to threaten others with it - you don't even want to go to war, you want to be able to go to war. TI3's mechanics make it often beneficial to turtle up, letting the others fight, and sneaking in a win through "mutually" beneficial agreements with other players. Also, the dice-based combat mechanics mean that 1) fights can take forever if large fleets are involved, 2) large fleets can be near invincible, and 3) you never know, a sole weak ship might destroy all your war suns. Still, the mix of everything (carriers with fighters, ground combat, planetary defenses, huge war suns and agile destroyers) makes strategy pretty flexible and scale, again, huge.
  SC on the other hand has unit limits on all planetary areas, so you can't just fill up with everything available and pound enemies into the ground - TI3 does have a unit limit per sector, but the players can increase it during play. Also, combat is way more tactical, because no dice are involved but rather a card mechanic is used that makes hand management important and benefits varied forces. The way research is tied in (it adds cards to the deck) is brilliant, although some people really don't like having to re-shuffle their decks all the time. And, SC combat hugely benefits the attacker, so offense is the best defense here and frontlines are usually pretty dynamic (even more so with some changes from the expansion like the offensive module, although defense also got some goodies).
• Both games feature unique and great mechanics for determining player order (the order token stack mechanic in SC, strategy cards in TI3), I won't go into those here but the way turn orders play out are pretty unique for both games, too. If you like screwing with other's plans, SC is more for you, but it's very possible in TI3 as well. SC has, overally, more of a focus on well laid-out plans for every round, while it's easier to improvise after a turn's planning stage in TI3.

I'm talking about "the expansion" for both games here - they are, Shattered Empire for TI3 and Brood War for SC. If you get either game, I can really recommend getting the expansions - unlike expansions for, say, Descent (that mainly add more monsters and rooms, not hugely changing the base game) the expansions for both TI3 and SC add great game mechanics to every play, diversify research and units, and (most importantly) fix quite some balance problems - Fighters are too strong in TI3 without SE, Archons are too strong in SC without BW, that kind of thing.

Whoa, so much text, I hope I didn't babble too much

TI3 is mostly an Empire Building game with much less Combat, Starcraft is mostly a pure Combat game...

I have played both many many times, (sorry I am at work and too lazy to write a detailed comparison), and I mostly played them with 6 players.

The shortcomings of TI for our group was the fact that TI3's Free-For-All and all the turtling to get points and finishing/winning the game with very little and possibly no fighting at all.

We tried SC FFA and didnt like it because of, again, the special objectives and the turtling for points. WE LIKE FIGHTING! So we started playing 3v3 and OMG!!! it is so awesome and so much fun. Then we got the Broodwar expansion and the game got to a completely new level.

Making strategies and fighting 3v3 is insane, because in starcraft there are so many different builds and tech combinations you can go for.. Each race having different techs is awesome and just like the computer game it is about 'countering' you opponents tactics and because of the Order Placing mechanics it is VERY unforgiving and chellenging. Requires ALOT of planning and thinkink, especially when it is 3v3.

In TI3 each race has a racial ability but share the same tech tree, so its almost predeterming which way you are going to go.

In SC each race has a racial ability, its own techs and with Broodwar you get leadership cards which are like unique racial abilities which keep getting added as the game progesses. Basically makes the game alot more flexible.

Also for the galaxy setup, in TI3 supposedly it is 'random' but it always the same actually; with Mecatol Rex in the middle and one enemy on each side.

In SC galaxies are more random giving chance to totally different games.

Anyways, long story short if you like 'fight fight fight' get SC, if you like role playing and empire building get TI3. If you are not sure which one you like, get SC!

Starcraft + Broodwar is the way to go IMO, never played TI3 again after I got SC...

WAIT I FORGOT THE MOST IMPORTANT THING OMG, I cant believe I forgot to mention this...

Combat in TI3 is DICE BASED!!!! And DICE SUCK! I Hate DICE, I HATE DICE BASED COMBAT!

In SC combat it is about strategically pariring up units to set up skirmishes and play cards behind them for their combat values and special abilities.

In TI3 you can lose a Dreadnought (basically a stadestroyer) to a retarded carrier, yes a carrier with a tiny laser, because you fail to roll less than 5 in d10 and the opponnevt rolls two 9s in a row. I find it quite stupid to make combat this way. I have lost more than my share of fights because of bad die rolls (god forbid I mention Risk!). In starcraft there is VERy LITTLE chance involved. It is all about startegy, planning and execution. It is HELL ALOT more tactical..

Disregard my previous comment about 'if you like this if you like thatr...' JUST GET STARCRAFT and BROODWAR! You will NOT be sorry and it wil be worth it.

Thanks, lads, for your reviews/opinions.

As it seems to me now, I will keep alternating in playing my favorite duo games TOI (as to a tactical fight) and SC (as to a strategic fight).

I will leave politics, trades and other such things to those who can handle/taste them better than me .

I would recommend you to try a game of TI3 with someone who possesses it. It's really worth it.

Stefan said:

I agree. Twilight Imperium 3 is my game of preference.