Okay, so I'm still trying to figure out how to get my wife to try the game, and I keep running up against the same hurdle: analysis paralysis. My games (both solitaire and against my brother-in-law) are just taking too long. Part of that is because we have to constantly stop and read each other's cards, but another part is because of the complexity of the challenges phase. Tonight in a core set Baratheon vs. Stark match-up, at the end of seven turns he had seven characters in play, and I had six. (This was after dropping a Valar on turn 3 or 4.) Most of the characters had special text that influenced the challenges phase -- I remember a Motley, Arya Stark, Robb Stark, a deadly wolf, and others. Don't get me wrong, we were enjoying the complexity, but we had to quit after turn 7 because people had been patiently waiting for our game to end.

Plus, by this point he had only eight power and I had seven. So we clearly still had a few turns to go -- even more if I dropped Valar again.

So I guess my question is this: Does this sound normal for a Baratheon vs. Stark core set match-up? Or is it more likely that there's something fundamentally wrong with our tactics? I know that may be impossible to answer, I'm just interested in any insight into tactics that have the advantage of speeding the game up.

For the most part, this is normal for Core Set match-ups. There aren't a lot of character "resets" in the Core Set (like Valar or Wildfire Assault), nor is there a lot of individual character kill. So the characters tend to pile up, especially when you consider that there aren't a whole bunch of draw and search effects that let you cherry-pick the character removal out of your deck - you have to wait for it to show up. It's a matter of card pool and will eventually get better, I think.

Another thing I have noticed about new players that may be affecting this is that they tend to be more likely to put resources into opposing challenges and winning on defense, especially in 1-on-1 games. For example, I've seen new players kneel their only guy with a power icon to defend against a power challenge when they had no power themselves. The better strategy it to let it go unopposed so that your opponent gets 1 power, then use your power guy on your own challenges to steal that power, plus your own unopposed. (An extreme example, but one that happens). With less "unopposed" being awarded (and, quite frankly, fewer challenges being won by attackers), characters and options pile up, contributing to the analysis paralysis. A lot of "veterans" cut through a lot of this by allowing challenges through (especially when they're going second in a 2-player game) and going more for the attack. The object of the game isn't to stop your opponent from getting power, it's about getting power faster than them.

The CCG game was a lot faster and more brutal than the LCG game. It wasn't unusual in the CCG game for players to only have about 3-4 characters each for most of the game. A good chunk of the change is cardpool (especially draw to allow more focus in a deck), but a little of it is experience. It'll come and the analysis paralysis will eventually ease up.

I agree with ktom, CoreSet play is slow. Those decks are just very basic and do not give you much options. If you buy more CPs the game will be more variable and you will enjoy it more.

I remember that in one of my firts tourney games I played against a newbie. So there were 2 newbies at one table and I think within the hour we played only like 3 or 4 plots and finished with draw with only few power on each site. The problem was that we very often just checked opponents cards and sometimes even our own cards since we were new and didnt know them well. Time to time we also had to run to our NW to check the rules. SO it was very slow.

Later on I was able to win a 13 plot game in 50 minutes. The key to that is to know YOUR cards, you have to know what all cards do and how they work to avoid a delay from your part. Then it is good if you are familiar with some of the general cards like Seas (narrow, summer atc.) Hamlets etc. so you dont have to check your oponent all the time because of them. This speeds the game a lot. Then even your own strategy can speed the game. If you are second in marshalling, you can already think what you marshall and think what will you defend and how you will attack. You can see all oponents cards so think while he plays. In couple month you will get the picture sooner then now so the game will get even faster.

One more thing, it helps to speed the game up if you both know what plots to play in what round and not to think about them for 5 minutes each round.

the Core Set is balanced a little more for Multiplayer, were playing a bit slower is ideal, so it is a little too slow for 1-v-1.

Tips:

1) treat all cards as if there text box were blank except keywords (renown, deadly stealth, no attachments)

2) play to 10 power

3) play with 3 or 4 people

and/or

4) make your own plot decks (its amazing how this can change the core set decks)

Thanks for all the suggestions and advice.

You know, with regard to ktom's point about the advantage of playing aggressively instead of defensively, that's something that I figured out at a rational level, but when the cards are on the table, I have a hard time putting it into action. Particularly against military and intrigue challenges. I guess the solution there is to put more cheap chumps in my deck....

One other thing occurred to me, as I was replaying last night's game in my head, with ktom's advice in mind. A big part of the reason we had so many characters in play was that I dropped Nymeria on Arya turn 1, and he dropped Davos Seaworth. So we each had reusable saves to absorb claim. And whenever somebody dropped a plot with 2 Claim, the other player turned on full-bore defensive mode. I imagine those were sensible tactical choices, but they did keep the game from getting simpler.

@Rozy: Thanks for the encouragement. I have noticed that with familiarity, the game speeds up (as you indicated it would). The challenge, I think, is that the core set has so few duplicate cards, so it's possible to play several games in a row with the same deck, yet not run into the same cards often enough to remember them.

@Lars: I like the idea of choosing a lower power limit. And I'm going to think hard about the idea of treating text boxes as blank. (I remember you suggested that once before.) Have played that way to teach people the game before? My fear is that with the text boxes as blank, the game might devolve into an extended math problem.

So putting all those thoughts together, I'm starting to get the beginnings an idea. Unfortunately, it's an idea that'll cost me another $40, which I'll have a hard time justifying if I can't get anyone to like the game...

Here's my recipe for "AGOT for newbies who aren't sold on the whole CCG idea in the first place":

1) Buy another core set

2) Build four decks that run a lot of duplicate cards, so there's a smaller card pool to remember. Try to use cheap, simple cards except for a few key power/flavor cards for each house.

3) Remove all reusable saves (Nymeria, Davos Seaworht, Viserys, etc....)

4) Make sure that every plot deck has a reset.

5) Set a time limit or a lower power limit

That might just work. Thanks for the thoughts, guys. If anyone else has any more advice, I'd love to hear it.

You are right about the saves. In CoreSet each House I think has this kind of save and very few ways to get rid of it. In CCG you would easily loose your Lightbringer by some attachment discard control or by multiple kill efect.

The CoreSet also lacks 2-claim plots or some ways how to raise the claim. Except Winter is Coming! /only for Stark/

The use of reset in every deck is a must, at least from me. I have seen very little decks without some king of reset. Valar is just brutal, I mostly used Wildfire assault or old Winterstorm.

When i tought my G/F the game she was overwhelemd by the text boxes. so i got rid of them. She now plays CCGs (though she likes kingdom hearts more becuase of the charcaters, that one was also way easier to teach as there is little text).

Text boxes make it harder to learn, but a better game once learned. I think Old ben made a deck that used limited text charcaters for his teaching too.