Just to refresh the memory this card reads:

" Forced: After resolving a quest to which Escort from Edoras was committed, discard Escort from Edoras from play"

Straightforward some might say. However a few nights ago I played a 2-player nightmare game in the hunt for Gollum cycle. And during the last quest phase of one of the scenarios Escort from Edoras was used for questing. Quest resolves and we put enough progress on it to finish the scenario.

Now comes the matter of timing. Because the rules state that "players immediately advance to the next stage of a quest as soon as they place a number of progress tokens equal to a greater than the number of quest points the current quest card has", these 2 effects seem to be happening close to one another (if not indeed simultaneous).

If the effects are indeed simultaneous then, according to the latest official FAQ, "the first player decides the order in which the effects resolve" and there´s no problem. However if they are not simultaneous which effect comes first?

PS: in nightmare this is an issue as to wether the player is allowed to shuffle the card back into his deck or wether it will be banished to the discard pile for the next scenario

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Good questions. The quest progression isn't really a "Forced" effect because it doesn't use the term "Forced." Instead, quest progression is a passive effect that is always active and just waiting for its conditions to be met. So, in the order of resolution, passive effects take prescedence over Forced effects. The order is as follows:
1. Passive
2. Forced
3. Response
This means that the quest would resolve and the game would end before the Escort from Edoras could trigger its Forced effect.
To answer your question about Forced effects that share a trigger: yes, the first player decides the order of resolution in cases of a tie.
Hope that helps,
Caleb

Nerdmeister said:

I think forced effect always is prior. So you discard Escort and then you win the game. Is sounds logic for all rules in this game. 90% sure.

Not too sure that forced effects automatically get pushed ahead in a timing situation. Appreciate the input though and hope to get more people to post their thoughts on this

Nerdmeister said:

They do, as per the FAQ:

(1.09) Forced Responses
Forced responses resolve immediately when their
specified prerequisite occurs, and before any response
effects that also can be triggered off the same
prerequisite.
Example: Tower Gate (CORE 107) reads, "Forced:
After travelling to Tower Gate…." If a player wishes
to play a response such as Strength of Will (CORE 47)
after the players travel to Tower Gate, he must wait
until after the forced response resolves.

Thus you have to play Forced effects first, then voluntary Responses and Player Actions. I also discussed timing issues and interpretations of Forced effects with Nate, which I reported here .

zeb said:

I stand corrected on this issue. However another question beckons: as players always progress "as soon" as the correct number of progress tokens have been placed (and possibly other prerequisites are met), is the progress on a quest inherently a forced effect?

To give an example where this is important, in the Hunt for Gollum scenario quest card 3B reads that if no hero has a clue card the quest is reset to stage 2B. If the progression is not forced then players can opt to stay at stage 2B with more than enough progress tokens and wait till the perfect time to progress when all (or maybe just the best questing) player(s) have a clue card.

If the answer is that it is not an inherently forced effect to progress in a quest then the way questing is done would change significantly (at least for our group). But if it is a forced effect would that mean that the choice of which effect to resolve first is once again placed at the first player?

Nerdmeister said:

Well, the same FAQ gives another example suggesting one cannot wait before replacing the quest card when the number of progress tokens has been placed:

Q. If Legolas has a Blade of Gondolin (CORE 39) and
destroys an enemy, can he trigger his response, finish
off a quest card, and still place progress tokens on the
next quest with the Blade of Gondolin's response?
A: Yes. Quest cards are immediately replaced as
soon as players place enough progress on them,
and this replacement does not interrupt the current
round sequence. If the current quest card only needs
1 progress on it, then a player could also trigger
the Blade's effect first, and then Legolas' in order to
maximize the number of progress tokens placed. (There
is no carry-over progress from an effect).

zeb said:

So does this entail that quest progression is a forced effect and therefore it is up to the first player to decided which forced effect to trigger first between Escort from Edoras or quest progression?

If possible and the first player decides to trigger the quest effect prior to Escort from Edoras then, in a nightmare game, EfE would be shuffled back into the deck

I see where you are coming from. You should submit this question to Nate directly, as I do not have the answer or seen it before.

Took the question to the FFG rules section and this is what I got from Caleb:

Good questions. The quest progression isn't really a "Forced" effect because it doesn't use the term "Forced." Instead, quest progression is a passive effect that is always active and just waiting for its conditions to be met. So, in the order of resolution, passive effects take prescedence over Forced effects. The order is as follows:
1. Passive
2. Forced
3. Response
This means that the quest would resolve and the game would end before the Escort from Edoras could trigger its Forced effect.
To answer your question about Forced effects that share a trigger: yes, the first player decides the order of resolution in cases of a tie.
Hope that helps,
Caleb

Nerdmeister said:

Good, good point. Really deep question about the rules. So in nightmare mode EFE will comeback to your deck. Bravo! Thanks

Nerdmeister said:

Thank you for sharing. That is interesting. I remember having discussed with Nate that the next FAQ would contain a more detailed and more precise turn phase table. This "Passive" effect definition might be part of it, this is an entirely new concept. Interestingly, we have in the rules the concept of "Constant effects" such as the Enchanted stream, or Thalin's ability (always wondered why that one was not a Response…). I wonder how Constant and Passive differ and if or how they intercalate.