No, I'm not posting up a home brew.

I was just wondering if anyone has managed to combine/ re-write the psyker rules in Heresy? But without significantly causing undue work to already existing characters?

I have heard adopting the system of the other 40k RPG products, where psyker's power is tied to Psy Rating, which prevents the abuse that a high WP (and unnatural WP modifiers) can easily create, while not shirking it. I would suggest checking up on RT, BC and Only War when it comes out to get an idea.

(It also offers Fetter, which you don't get in DH until Ascension level which also makes psykers somewhat safer, by at least giving them an option to not wave to the warp and invite passing warp stuff to come on by)

That was the kind of thing. A combination system.

My concern, with the Psy rating over WP bonus. A lot of builds have high willpower, and to just turn around and go, "Nope, sorry it's not worth the XP you spent on it anymore" is just rude.

If I understand it correctly, you use both. The psy rating determines range, some power, effects, but you still do a test that involves WP. I will need to re-read the systems, but I think the fix was to nerf the WP bonus can be EXTREMELY high and overbearing, but not useless for a psyker and greater reliance on a psy rating, but I will have to look it over in detail before I can commit.

I have played DH extensively, RT a little bit, and only looked at the rules for DW.

Of them I can say this, choose one system, use it and stick with it for the whole campaign. DH is the most flavourful and the best in my opinion, but takes a while to get used to. Remember that it is very OP, and it is the GM's job to rein in players that go too far by using NPCs such as unruly mobs (witch hunters), heretics and the like. RT has more controls and works like most abilities, with less harmful side effects. It reminds me of the Living Greyhawk in the 3.5 D&D… too vanilla for my tastes, but good if you're a beginner GM.

I don't feel that a re-write is in any way necessary. It's just that many GMs need to understand the systems before deciding which to use and then they need to use them correctly.

RT, DW, and BC don't have Minor Psychic Powers for a reason. I'm just sayin'.

I think Fettering will destroy game balance by making minor psychic powers usable without restraint.

OK having played both DH and RT extensively for the last several years and combing through as much material as i can find ( i have all but the newest books for each )…I can say a few things easily

1) DH does have minor psy powers

2) RT doesnt per se since they use 2 different versions of psykers ( both more powerful actually ) and have no real need for minor powers

As for creating a hybrid system that doesnt overbalance the campaign or seem unfair to the existing characters and doesnt require ANY reworking on the PCs part to run..i suggest the following and this is for DH jusr for clarity

1) KEEP the psykers WP bonus ( it is there for a reason )…a high enough WP bonus in general means that the psyker can use MINOR powers solely off their WP bonus points and NEVER have to roll a powers check ( making it safer in general for the whole group which will thank you )…

2) give the option of Fettering ( using half your available dice for the checks ) and Pushing ( using more than your usual amount of max dice and automatically causing a perils event )<insert evil grin here>

3) to further help keep the group alive the psykers WP bonus number can indicate the TOTAL number of "9"s the psyker can discard per "day/session" etc. in addition any 9s discarded will NOT count towards power manifestation rolls ( they are totally removed potentially preventing the psyker from even using his powers at times )

Simple enough is that psyker characters are normally the BANE of any group due to the current standard rules setup….These rules give the psyker characters alot of flexibility but still do retain a measure of potential problems ( especially if the PC has bad luck on dice rolls -IE bunch of 9s )

To further mess with the psyker PCs and inhibit them from using powers in general the following was proposed by a player last year and has been used to great effect.

1) For every 10 insanity points the psyker PC accumulates he will LOOSE 1 point of his WP bonus for purposes of manifesting rolls and discards

Example: Psyker initial WP bonus of 5

Insanity point total: Penalty to WP bonus:

10 -1

20 -2

30 -3

etc…

The purpose here is that the psykers mind has become unhinged so to speak in whatever degree through aquiring insanity and malignancies making it progressively harder to concentrate to bring their full willpower to bear on tests. Also using this method for each malignancy the psyker PC gets…the chances of a Perils check increase by 5-10% (GMs choice ) whenever a test is needed

Using either or both in part or whole should give you a balance however you see fit without requiring any reworking of existing PCs..simply a modification to the rules as requested.

Cobramax76 said:

I like it!!!

@Cobramax76: Now are these rules used for pre-Acension?

To answer your question Phi6891…i dont use Ascension rules changes at all..and if you do use the fetter/unfetter/push rules then your basically incorporating the ascenscion benefits for it into the PCs from the beginning ( which is what FFG shouldve done to begin with ). The core rules for regular DH and ascension for psykers are broken but not so much that they cant be fixed without requiring a PC rewrite at all..simply modify a few existing rules to fit….Every GM wants a different flavor and no player likes to have to rework their PC once theyve been using them for awhile so the system ive designed and used with player help/input has been tested and does work….with both levels of play in mind

Frankly the psykana SHOULD be training ALL the psykers to learn to understand how to fetter unfetter ( and strongly protest them from pushing ..lol ) as that training out the gate would only serve to help the psykers stay normal and do the emperors will longer and better making them less of a threat at lower levels to perils….and in my games they DO just that..give them the full training before letting them run amok..lol.

Until i had these rules drawn up most of my players at one time or another wanted to play a psyker but everyone was too scared of causing a perils check that would kill the whole group..so no one played them and i had to regularly draw up a NPC psyker ( that the group avoided or put the crosshairs on all the time )…So we all sat down together and discussed what was wrong with it and how to fix it easiest ( myself and my group are all experienced players of RPGs with each having around 15-20 or more years with RPGs ( and all on multiple game systems IE: MERP / RIFTS / classic D&D-AD&D 3.5 / Palladium / RECON / etc..etc..)

Yes the rules are good for ascension level PCs as well..lol

Cobramax76 said:

< ahem> I feel I must jump in and point out something here that is apparently mis-understood. Every time a Psyker activates ANY Power she (or he) must make a Focus Power Test. This requires rolling a minimum of ONE die.

Ergo, it is IMPOSSIBLE (RAW) to activate an ability by your willpower bonus alone, even if your WP would allow for it to 'work'. Without fettering there is always a chance of invoking the warp issues unless the Psyker has managed to pick up Psychic Supremacy (see Disciples of the Dark Gods). This ability is largely useless when the fettering rules become available, so I've seen very few Psykers who ever bother to get it.

With that said, I am working on a minor re-write of the Psychic Supremacy rule, which just allows it to be picked up a little easier, and then making it a pre-requisite for Psykers to get Fettering/Push abilities later. It's a pain, yes. But it makes more sense than the current system in place, IMHO.

Cobramax76 said:

Strong agreement with this comment. But remember that this applies to 'sanctioned' Psykers… Sorcerors, witches, wylds, mutants… anyone who has not been sanctioned will not and should not have to worry about it. Which makes them a bit tougher to deal with.

Yes Denmar i agree with the last comment about the witches etc..being more of a pain…but i was only focusing on the PCs..and as for the particular about focusing…thank you for reminding me of it since it does play into my method and reason i mentioned the insanity points and malignancies ( i forgot to specify so here it is with an option for others who might not want it ) my groups have discussed it together and decided on doing it one of two ways..

NOTE: Reguardless of method picked the PCs are sanctioned psykers so they will always have access to fetter etc…( at least in my games )

Method 1) Using the focus rule ( as it applies to sufficient WP bonuses to manifest w/out rolls ) IF focusing is being used then if they succeed in the focus check then the power is automatically manifested without any need for rolling ( hence avoiding any powers checks )..Benefits…obvious no worry about perils..Drawbacks…CANNOT exceed basic manifestation ( IE no extra points to make the enemy checks against ability harder or range farther etc ) ELIMANATING any potential for overbleeds ( unless the psyker has a seriously high WP bonus ( IE unnatural WP or some other bonus such as psy mastery/discipline focus etc for the majors with lower thresholds ) Primarily this is used on minor abilities only..but in some ascension campaigns i can see the potential for a psyker to be able to use it for some of their discipline powers as well in which case they will automatically loose the ability to overbleed if this rule is being used.

Method 2) NOT using focus rule at all ( totally elimanating it ) Benefits…less rolls to deal with faster gameplay and potentials for overbleeds etc Drawbacks: makes the psy focus object from the listings pointless…lol

Actually i prefer choice 1 to use ( and do most often ) especially since i use the malignancies and penalties for insanity points..i think it fits extremely well since the penalties associated with insanity points apply to the focusing test as well ( hence why i mentioned the check and penalizing the WP roll/bonus as a result of not being able TO focus as well as result of errant thoughts etc….)

I go for method 1 as favorite and incorporate the Insanity/malignancy penalties mentioned in previous posting into the focusing roll ( and if they fail by more than 4 or 5 degrees as a result of the penalty…then a perils check is automatically done and a peril WILL occur ( as result of the psykers extremely unstable irrantional mind beckoning to the warp denizens to come out and play so loudly that one of them DOES answer. Needless to say all my players with psykers take serious measure to avoid getting insanity points lol and spend large amounts of XP to remove the points when they happen..lol