Any solutions to this generalized problem? It seems Wizards and Priests spells (even the POD ones) have been designed as little more than D&D-style battle-monkeys. Any thoughts on solutions?
jh
The problem with Wizards and Priests is their spells have little to no use outside combat. Solutions?
Buy Support/Social actions to supplement their divine/arcane power?
I don't know as much about the Warhammer universe as others on this board so I ask in all earnestness, are spells/blessings used extensively outside of combat in the lore (for things a PC would want to do/could reasonably do)? If not then perform a stunt for minor magics would seem appropriate. For minor blessings? Not sure if the god would grant 'frivolous' use of their might.
I'm not an expert in the lore, but I think Perform A Stunt with Piety or Spellcraft is totally reasonable. Or Cantrip, of course, if you're not trying to get a specific game system effect.
I've had my wizard player make creative use of Cantrip (it's sort of the Perform a Stunt spell). I think it depends a bit on the faith/order as well. Grey Order wizards and Priests of Ranald have interesting options. Verena is another one with lots of non-combat blessings.
Yeah a Bright Wizard or Priest of Sigmar is pretty much "bake em and bash em", though even there you can intimidate people with fire etc.
Well, the magic that the high elves taught the men was to defend themselves against chaos. No wonder then that most of the spells are combat oriented. Said that, I find it a pitty that so many spells are combat oriented only.
On the other hand, in many adventures you read how this wizard npc did this or that which is totally outside the possibilities of the order wizard spells, see for example the adventure in lure of power. I would suggest then to use cantrip as a "perform a stunt" action card for wizards, as suggested in the Players Guide, and may be invent some house rules for ritual magic as it was in the second edition.
Cheers
More of a feature than a problem to me.
One of the reasons I like WFRP3 over other games is spellcasters not being able to totally bend or break encounters or adventures with a half assed spell casting.
Aside from that I agree with Yepesnopes and Valvorik, the "less fighty" Orders and Cults seem to get thier fair share of non-combat spells. They just more give an edge or enhance other actions rather than toss off whole endeavors.
When my gaming group was using Warhammer Fantasy Roleplay 3E, our GM gave us dramatic license to Perform a Stunt to create magical abilities on-the-fly. This is perhaps one of a few gripes I have with the game. The system seems to imply that the only abilities you may use are restrained to those upon the cards.
I understand the design decision, but don't wholly agree with its implementation. However, the community has produced some truly incredible fan supplements to fill in the gaps.
False.
I think they have huge uses, in fact I'd say my bright wizard is more useful out of combat then he is in it. My bright wizard burns down doors, lights fires, scares people, warms other players, heats metal bars to weaken them, cooks food.
Door in the way? Flame blast!
Need to clear a busy room fast? Shielding winds! That gets them running!
Light a fire? Cantrip!
Stuck in jail? Flamblast! Burn that sucker!
No light? Cantrip!
No light? Shielding winds!
Want to inspire to greater deeds? Fiery Passion!
About to get mugged? Defuse the situation by lighting yourself on fire! Watch em run!
Scare the crap out of someone? Summon a giant flaming sword!!!!
Plus you can design a spell using the cantrip action like perform a stunt.
And that's just a bright wizard!
I think your taking their spells and there stat effects to literally. Bright wizards are the most combat of the lot and my bright wizard seems to be at his best when he's not throwing magic darts at approaching goblins. I've played with a grey wizard, since when is hiding and stuff and turning invisible only good in combat?
I'm thinking this is one of your open questions to generate responses to keep the forum moving Emirikol as I know your far more creative to do exactly what a card tells you to in a specific situation.
I don't think this is an issue exclusive to casters. The warrior has a similar difficulty adapting "Troll-Feller Strike" or "Rain of Arrows" in social situations so it's the same for everyone. To play the game in its strict form you need to buy the social actions or talents to improve your utility in social encounters. Of course that doesn't mean that a warrior cannot finger his sword or a wizard make flickering flames dance across their fingertips to improve their chances in a social situation.
How much they can do depends on the GM. If a bright wizard went beyond cantrips in a social setting with my current GM in charge I'd foresee them having a painful encounter with a witch hunter at the head of an angry mob. It's a lot safer to buy the focus talents that allow you to persuade and intimidate with intelligence rather than strength or fellowship. No chance of a chaos miscast and much less risk of an angry mob!
I agree with both Fenderstat and Grumbold.
You *can* use most spells, even typically "combat" spells in non-combat situations, with some creative thinking. Beyond that, non-combat actions/spells are the way to go. Certain colleges are more focused on combat than others. A Bright Wizard has more combat focused spells. This is like a Trollslayer complaining that he isn't good at social situations. Of course, by the very nature of his being a Trollslayer, his social abilities are hampered.
One thing you could do, although I recommend being careful about it, is allow the wizard to peruse the spell cards of other colleges and "repurpose" them to his college. If you attempt this, make your wizard player come up with how it works with his particular wind. For example, allowing a Bright Wizard to use a Grey College "darkness" spell (I forget its name). Rather than creating an actual darkness, perhaps the Bright Wizard generates a cloud of steam which partially obscures vision. I'd probably reduce the effect, or make the spell more difficult to cast. This is an option, however, which you give your wizard players more flexibility and more options for spells (especially non-combat ones).
dvang said:
For example, allowing a Bright Wizard to use a Grey College "darkness" spell (I forget its name). Rather than creating an actual darkness, perhaps the Bright Wizard generates a cloud of steam which partially obscures vision. I'd probably reduce the effect, or make the spell more difficult to cast. This is an option, however, which you give your wizard players more flexibility and more options for spells (especially non-combat ones).
What a good idea!
This works best if you only have a single wizard character. You don't want players to "poach" each other's spells and utility. Also, be careful that you don't let the player abuse the privilege. Certain colleges are supposed to be better at certain areas of magic … hence the reason for choosing a college to specialize in. You need to be careful that you don't let a PC wizard broaden their spell selection too much, such that they can perform spells as if they were a wizard from a different college.