Hawknight said:

So say we all!

Still, it's only till January the 16th.

Either way:

Humas: 2

Cylon: 1

(in one human win we had 2 fuel, in the second 2 morale; The Cylon won once because of a rulings misreading and it turned out that we had 3 cylons in a 6 player game)

In games where the rules were played correctly:

Cylons 5

Humans 0

So far:

3 Player: Cylons 1 Humans 1

6 Player: Cylons 2 Humans 0

Two 3-player games: 2 Cylon victories before distance 4. Both games had a starting Cylon.

Two 6-player games: 2 Human victories, jumping 4 times plus once to end the game, 1 or no starting Cylon, Sympathizer stayed human, and two resources at 2 or less (the other two at 6 or 7) to end the game. One game was very close, the other we jumped early to win as population dropped to 2.

Our sense is with more players, the game becomes more balance for the humans. There's less likelihood the President or Admiral start as Cylons, you should have two pilots and need one to stay human, there are more cards to help non-Cylons get out of the brig, and overall more cards of the correct color available for whichever crisis arises.

so far ive had some great games, in our most recent one both adama and lee turned out to be cylons. now baltar had used his cylon detector on adama and failed to realize that he was in reality a cylon and thus started acusing other ppls of being a cylon. lee got outed early after sleeper phase. adama was never revealed killing the humas with a bad final jump that got rid of their last 2 fuel.

overall i think cylons 2 humans 1

cylons: 4

humans: 0

Actually, in one game, the crisis deck was so brutal that the cylons stood and watched as galactica crumbled and exploded without making a single jump. Pilot episode gone terribly wrong, it was horrifying, and we all loved it

Out of three games the tally now stands as follows:

1st game: A three player game that was never finished we just used it to learn the rules and get a feel for the game.

2nd game: A four player game with a narrow Human victory. Characters used: Helo, Boomer, Baltar (the Cylon), and Apollo.

3rd game: A four player game with a huge Cylon victory. Characters used: Tom Zarek (Cylon sympathizer), Starbuck (the Cylon), President Roslin, and Tigh.

Here in Czech republic are Cylons dominating.

3-0 for Cylons (one close and unlucky, one lost before mid-way, one well played by Cylon)

Tretiak said:

We had the exact same thing happen once.............a perfect storm of horrible crises.

Rozy said:

So after 2 more games I have to say that humans did really good and reduced the count to 3-2 after 2 victories.

1. Game with 4 players: Zarek, Starbuck (cylon), Helo and Boomer. The game was really good in the beggining, we didnt even think there is cylon from the beggining since nothing seemed like there is. Couple rounds later we found out that eighter starbuck or helo are cylon. We didnt wanted to put in Brig the wrong one so we waited, I was 100% sure that Boore is human as me. But we passed most of the Crisis so there wasnt really need to lock someone. We juped 3-2 and then again 3 destination. SO we made 8 in 3 jumps, thats when Starbuck revealed her self, but too late I would say. We manege to prepare for jump a used FTL on -3 knowing that with 4 pop left we are OK. We survived

2. Game with 4 players: Apollo, XO, Gaius, Laura. I played Apollo and started as a cylon. I was very unlucky that rught in my first Crisis President was able to look at my Loyalty card, she acused me of being cylon, but Baltar using his Once per game ability, confirmed her acusation and they put me in Brig before my second turn. There was no sence in trying to get out of there. So I revealed myself and did nothing. It was hard to play cylon so early revealed. In about mid way i used my superscisis - Massive assualt I think, I did 2 damage to galactica and killed 3 civs, killing just 2 pop and 1 morale. Since they jumped then. There were almost non ships in space around Galactica for almost 2 jumps. Since Laura alway put them on the bottom of the deck. And me playing Caprica all the time wasnt able to draw one. XO had to leave earlier, so that weakend them a little but stil with baltars abilitz they were able to cover most of the skill checks. They finally made it with 2 fuel, 3 food, 1 morale and 1 population left even with 3 cylons on board galactica. I was kind of upset but it is just a game, isnt it?

bucklen_uk said:

Update:

So far

3 Player: Cylons 1 Humans 2

4 Player Cylons 2 Humans 0

5 Player Cylons 1 Human 1

6 Player Cylons 3 Human 0

So in total Cylons 7 Humans 3. Games seem harder on the Humans when the Cylons end up next to each other in the seating order (only applicable with 4+ of course) - being hit twice with no opportunity to fix the problem caused by the first cylon is nasty.

Our group has had a somewhat different experience to most people here. At first things were similar, the cylons won 4 games in a row - but this turned out to be more because we screwed up the game rules. Attack cards that stayed in play, we would resolve all three stages each turn (very dangerous!). Failure to shuffle the deck very thoroughly in the first games means you'll get attack card after attack card as your crisises, simply because they're packaged in the box together, and galactica will predictably blow up quite quickly.

After a few games though everyone has also become better at playing the humans. Almost everyone who draws green cards then executive orders someone else - this almost doubles the actions available for the humans, and they're cheap cards. The president constantly draws quorum cards (they're extremely powerful, much more than i believed at first), and with a strategic planning the president routinely raises troubled resources. By watching the skill checks and who contributes, and what colours are contributed, it becomes quite easy to narrow down the list of cylons quite quickly unless they just watch and wait (people even began "counting the cards" blackjack style to estimate which destiny cards were still to come up - it's very easy to do, and we doubled the destiny deck size to try and counter this). It's also become standard game practice to let resources drop at the start of the game, because having the sympathiser go human is so vital to a human victory. We always make distance 3 jumps where possible, so the game can usually be won in only 4-5 different jumps.

I think the human's main advantage in our game may just be that we take actions by consensus - things are discussed before actions are taken - and as the majority of players are human, the consensus is generally always good for the fleet. Then anyone who goes against it gets some suspicion placed upon them.

Revealing as a cylon doesn't seem very powerful at all - the humans outnumber them too terribly. You can pull a crisis on them or even a supercrisis, but they will still have at least three turns (in a four player game) to counter what you've done before you can go again. With executive orders that is a lot of actions, and the entire cylon fleet you jumped in on your turn will be gone by the time it's round to the cylon player again, just be executive ordering the pilot and the guy standing in weapons control.

The humans have now won a string of games and done so very comfortably. So we're looking to make it harder for the cylons somehow. Lowering the resources at the start as the book suggests, I don't think that will help us at all - we let the resources drop at the start anyway for sympathiser purposes. So we may need to houserule something else - like letting revealed cylon players choose what cylon ships do when they're activated.

But to summarise, it's my opinion so far that the game mainly seems weighted against the humans when players are inexperienced Cylons can often do nothing at all in these games and watch the humans lose. Once they discover the best tools at their disposal (discussion between players, executive orders, quorum cards + strategic planning, roslin's crisis picking ability), the game weighs too heavily in favour of the humans.

And you may have guessed that 90% of our games are six player games, as it's gone down very well at our club. It's definately a great game, though I do worry that unless we're missing something fundamental, or we come up with some good houserules, it'll become a bit stale if the humans continue to win consistently.

Terpoma said:

While this is a very good strategy for winning as humans it kind of takes away some of the fun and spirit of the game. All the secrasy rules are there to protect against to much concensus decision and ultimatley to help protect hidden cylons. Personaly I think the game will be more fun with less agreaing on actions to take, even if it means you will most often lose as human. But to each his own

I don't understand. Humans are expected to agree on things lest they draw suspicion. It's the mission/duty of the Cylon players to say one thing and then do another with the clever play of Skill cards. Humans can't play Investigative Committee every turn. Also, if you can't get away with playing the negatively-colored cards on a check, at least over-estimate your capabilities to contribute to the check (saying you're good to go, but playing 1's).

Once the halfway point is reached (and the humans are working the metagame by going into the red on a resource and escaping the Sympathizer), the Cylon should then focus on failing every check that results in a loss of that red-zone resource until they're caught. Then they reveal, and then go join the Cylon fleet, still focusing his "one card per check" on failing the crises which reduce the red-zone resource (I forget which color Skill Cards are most likely NOT to be included in a check, but whatever it is, the Cylon should draw his two from that deck.) Since Food, Fuel, and Morale can be recovered, if the Population is in the red, the Cylon player should activate Raiders every time he has a chance, and start picking off the civ ships. Over time, Vipers will get damaged and destroyed - once that happens, there's no stopping the Raiders - the only alternative is an early jump, which threatens about as much Population as it would save.

I mean, since we're discussing Human strategies at length (and giving dedicated toaster players clues into how to stop those strategies), we might as well blow-out the Cylon plans as well.

Well, the best plan for Cylon players is to accuse the Admiral or the president of being a cylon, get them send to the Brig, seize the power and destroy humanity. Pretty easy with Saul Tigh, actually.

Our ratio has settled pretty much into the 3:1 cylons/humans ratio. No run-away human victories, and rarely a cylon run-away victory, though it still happens sometimes, most games are pretty tight. Three player games seem especially hard on the humans - I'm not sure we've ever had a human victory with three players.

James

Humans 3, Cylons 2

Personally, I've won 4 of those games :-)

Smuggler said:

Agreed. I've seen too many co-op games spoiled by doing things by consensus. I'd advise as little discussion as possible.

But I also agree that you should do what you want.

Big Head Zach said:

Humans can't play Investigative Committee every turn.

Updating to 4-2 for cylons.

Actually I would have to say that in 5 players it is far more difficult to win as human, playing 3 humans against 2 cylons. We locked one but the other revealed himself, sent me in sicbay and discarded 5 cards. We almost had no cards while trying to put in brig the other one so we struggled a lot and lost in 3 rounds. We moved like by 2 on Jump prep track. I think we run out of food, but everything was very low.

Mindseye said:

We are running at 1-1... (yep, not palyed nearly enough games!)

Both times I've been a) human and b) the Admiral Bill Adama - so I have a somewhat mixed record of leading the human race to safety!

The first game was six players and the human lost, the second game was five players and the humans won.

bucklen_uk said:

Played again twice last night - 6 player, Cylons won both times. First game was a blow out, both Adama and Tigh were cylons at the start, Galactica went down at distance 3.

2nd game was closer (and much longer), very good at one point Admiral/President Tigh (Adama was a sympathiser and in the brig) executive ordered Baltar (human) to check Boomer ... result, "she's human".

Short discussion followed, with Baltar convinced that the former Admiral was really a cylon and also his son Apollo (he was right about Apollo), so he executive orders Tigh expecting Apollo to be brigged - Tigh is convinced both Boomer and Baltar are Cylons, so brigs both!

Roslin then reveals, shooting Tigh. Apollo then moves some of the fleet towards the incoming raiders, and the penny drops - 3 humans in the brig, only remaining human in sickbay - cylon on the resurrection ship and cylon Apollo wrecking things on galactica - not surprisingly the humans lost.

So in total now Cylons 9 Humans 3.

I love this game!

Cylons: 5 Humans: 1

We actually just won a 5 player as the Humans. It was pretty hairy, at distance 2 we drew 3 Cylon attack cards in a single round of 5 and had 3 Centurions aboard. I ended the game as President Zarek in the brig but still effective!

The interesting thing was we had no Cylons at the start of the game, both were delt at the sleeper stage and they had a hard time catching up. This made me think of previous games, and that it seems that the earlier the Cylons enter play the harder it is for the humans, and if both start in play it is very hard indeed.

One good tip we found, if you have a human Admiral, is to aim to jump to 3 rather than 4. Even if it means taking a 1 distance card and needing an extra jump to get to mid game. The Humans don't like the sleeper phase as it has the potential to turn anyone into a Cylon, and if you are doing well it can just send a human player to the brig with the Sympathiser card, so pushing it to be as late in the game as possible is a really good move. So if you hit 3, then gun for maximum distance (and raptors and Launch Scout can be used to make this happen) you can have a sleeper phase at distance 6, (If you can sort a distance 3 to the top of the deck) one jump from Kobol rather than at 4 which is at least two jumps. (It's worth taking a Desolate moon or Astroid field to get one jump from Kobol, just remember to watch those resources...)

Human rally! After Cylon victory after Cylon victory, we broke the game out yesterday and had three human wins in a row! Two of them came down to one final make-or-break event. Great fun!