The psyker in my group has now gotten some nice gear and is basically a close combat monster, ie multiple attacks, lethal powers and nice weapons. These were all rolled for or spoils of war etc. Now he threatens to unbalance the party with him being basically a better fighter than the gaurdsmen who is already considerably nasty.

How do you curtail the machinations of a player without screwing them over?

Are you playing with the latest Errata? This restricts him to either manifesting or attacking in a round - if your guardsman can't reach that, you might want to look at what he's doing wrong.

Could you also post exactly what powers, talents and traits he's abusing?

It's mostly Psychic blade which combined with his two other mono blades and swift attack, he also uses lucky to re-roll the power dice when he rolls a 9. He buffs himself before getting into combat. I have notcied that in confined spaces he is obviously a lot more effective, although in the last game he took that long doing this the gaurdsman had shot the two cultists in the head (multiple shots and not called shot). He unfortunately just got his hands on a suit of light enforcer carapace, something i wasn't expecting as it is generally rare, so he's now pretty tough as well.

What do you think?

So how does he use three weapons? Because I haven't seen any talent called "three-weapon fighting"...

What is "lucky"?

Also, are you aware of the Sustaining Powers rule on page 164? What powers is he using to "buff" himself?

No amount of Psychic power will allow him to wield 3 weapons.

Force the party to split up, overwelm him with low grade critters, that should lower his chance to hit.

You can't always wear carapace armour, social situation are cool, if chalanged to a dual, no carapace

Talk to the player!!! (Ehr well, hey, you character is kinda unbalanced)

The game where I play (as opposed to the game where I GM), is very high-powered because that's how the GM and the other players like it.

I play a diviner/telekine, so I have access to psychic blade as well as the divination combat buffs, and being a high powered game I have high quality armor and a force weapon. We do not use the errata about powers and attacking in the same round. And I cannot out-fight the Assassin or the Guardsman (who also have nice gear).

So I would echo the prior sentiment that you should probably look at the gear and build on the other characters to see why this is happening. Also as suggested, revisit the rules that the psyker traditionally uses to make sure something is not being mis-interpreted.

Lucky is a minor psychic power that lets them reroll any one dice until the end of their next turn. That's the buff although he spends the time doing it and then casting psychic blade. Isn't there a minus to casting more than one power in a round?

I'll check over the rules and the new errata, i didn't know it was out as we'd just started playing again after a break. As for the 3 weapon thing i'll be instigating that he has to concentrate on two weapons as per the talent.

Cheers guys.

Lucky is a minor psychic power that lets them reroll any one dice until the end of their next turn. That's the buff although he spends the time doing it and then casting psychic blade. Isn't there a minus to casting more than one power in a round?

Are you aware that it isn't possible to manifest without rolling dice? Meaning the psyker has a real chance of incurring Phenomena with his Lucky. Also, the way I read the power, he'd have to reroll all the Lucky dice.

And finally, as I said, you just can't use the Manifest Power action twice in a round.

Cifer said:

This.

If the problem is that a combat-oriented over-powered (for your game) character is disrtupting your game this can easily be resolved by putting the character in situations where fighting is a bad idea.

Also remember that doing anything w/ psyker powers will trigger psyniscience rolls by any oppositon psykers close of enought to sense the tapping of the warp. This may often mean that by "buffing" himself before the fight, mr. psychic combat monster may well be giving away the acolytes' possession and/or any element of suprise they may have going for them. This could give the badguys a chance to attack first, or better yet flee. After a few times of "power-up" to get ready causing the bad guys to escape without even a fight and the character might be a bit more careful about when to use powers.

Another idea: In the case of well financed baddies who have a reason to think their might be psykers coming after them, try psycho-reactive mines/booby traps. Have a trap sometime that has its trigger attached to some kind of psycho-reactive material, where if a psychic power is used w/in X number of meters sets off trap. A few big booms and some shrapnel in the face immediately after manfesting and lucky won't seem so lucky anymore.

One thing to consider is to enhance the differences on strengths and weaknesses between the psyker and the guardsmen. For the most part Psykers out do most classes in their specialties. Why use an assassin when a Psyker with Camoflage, Knack and Lucky can do better stealth? Heck, why play anything else when you have a Sister of Battle available? Every class has their strengths and weaknesses. Play them up. Remember that psykers are always subject to the warp. Toss in more NPC psykers that have the Weaken Veil power. Emphasize the specific experience that an Imperial Guardsmen has in battle over that of the psyker. Those may help a little.

In combat, things are going to be a bit more dificult. However, you could always have most of the baddies go after the biggest visible threat in a battle (which sounds to be this psyker). The Guardsmen may also have the benefit of not being dependent on psychic powers giving him a push. Believe it or not, that is a big advantage.

As a suggestion, it might be a good idea to bring the situation up to all the players at your table to find out if they have some ideas on how they specifically can help resolve this situation.

I guess my first question is it the player being a complete munchkin idiot, or is it a by-product of how his character is built and the rules of the game.

In the first case of the player having a "look at me and my bad-<bleep> self with my super-jedi-katana wielding-trench-coat wearing combat monster self" issues then its an out of game issue that you and this player need to "discuss" and if the "discussion" does work, then killing the character is an answer. In this case, usually, combat monsters are high on combat stats and really low on social stats and skills. In this case I'd simply have him accused of heresy by another inquisitor, and force him to defend himself in a court of heresy.

If the issue lies in the fact that he simply built his character up the way his back story said he would, and he turns out to be a monster due to a twist in the rules, then its a completely different issue and needs to be handled in a completely different way. Usually this means looks at the rules again, finding where you're mistranslated them, or houserulling something that the entire group can agree on. Either that or simply design scenerios which are a bit more tougher combat wise, forcing team play on both the guardsman and psykers part.

A third case could be who cares is this psyker is overshadowing the guardsman? If this a case of the guardsman player feeling that he's no longer the top combat monster, and feeling hurt, or it simply a case of your preconceptions that the guardsman should be the top dog of the combat heap, which isn't always the case. If the guardsman is feeling hurt that he's not top combat dog, then its an issue you need to "discuss" between you and him. If its your own preconceived notions, well its your game... either change the game to fit into your notions, or change them.

if the group has any long term enemies then they will be aware of the psyker. All of a sudden even the low level cannon fodder are equiped with hexagramic and pentagramic wards.

As a GM there is no such thing as an out of balance game. If the group is hard as nails then the foes they fight must also be hard as nails

All of a sudden even the low level cannon fodder are equiped with hexagramic and pentagramic wards.

Considering the prices and availabilities involved, other methods (like a sniper ambush with thinly spread forces) might be a little more believable.

I was thinking of putting in combats where his close combat wouldn't be suited. An ambush of marksmen from a few hundred meters away for example.

As well, the idea above about alerting other psykers is a **** good one to boot, because it makes a lot of sense.

I'd say the Anti-Psyker mines may be a little bit too much, because that's really just going after him, unless the sentence above puts that in, and the enemies know that there are psykers, and will prepare in the future to be equipped against it (warding on armour).

Bloodfyre said:

Not to be an jerk or anything but it sounds to me like you created the monster..... Munckins and Power gamers are only allowed to survive if the GM lets them. You gotta know the rules and call him out.

My GM knows the rules of all our characters and everyone agrees to play by them.

The new errata only allows the psyker to manifest 1 PP per round also if they manifest a PP they CANNOT attack because that is consider a Standard Action.... Check below for the proper wording.

The first paragraph in the Using Psychic Powers section
starting on page 161 should include the addition: “Making
a Focus Power Action is the psychic equivalent of a
Standard Attack Action, and counts as such for purposes
of determining what else a psyker can do in a round.
Therefore, a psyker who uses a Half Action power cannot
make another Half Action Standard Attack on the same
round. A Psyker may manifest only one ability per Round
with the exception of the Resist Possession power. A Psyker
is required to roll at least one die to manifest an ability.”

Hope this helps...

Jonas_Leman said:

Considering the sentence: "Therefore, a psyker who uses a Half Action power cannot make another Half Action Standard Attack on the same round", wouldn't it then be allowed to manifest a Free Action power, like Distort Vision, and then make a Charge action? After all, it's not a Half Action Standard Attack, it's a Full Action, and so are many other alternative attacks as well, such as All Out Attack, Full / Semi Auto Burst, Guarded Attack, Grapple, Stun and Supressing Fire.

xenobiotica said:

So your argument is "because the rules say I can't take a half action I therefore can so things that are full action" (i.e. 2 half actions) this makes no sense.

Also the sentance in the errata specifically states that his is a rule for Half action powers. It does not place any restriction of free action powers.

So manifesting a half action power , takes up the same time/action slot as a half action attack and therefore you can do the same things as if you had performed a half action attack. So no you can't do a half action power and follow it with a full action anything, just like you can't take a ahlf action attack and follow it with a full action anything or another half action attack.

Free action powers do not restrict any other actions, except that you may not also manifest another psychic power that round.

The restriciton on manifesting a second power is not a question of actions but rather of the separate errata rule: " A Psyker may manifest only one ability per Round with the exception of the Resist Possession power ."

I personally think that should be ammended to "with the exception of powers which are Reaction s" However, as Resist Possession is, if I recall correctly, the only power currently classified as a Reaction (taking the the same action slot as a parry or dodge) that change would really only be necessary as a hedge against powers detailed in future releases.

DocIII said:

My comment was to Jonas saying that manifesting a psychic power meant that you could not attack in the same round. But I see where you might misstake my meaning. The errata states that the Focus Power Action is the same as using the Standard Attack Action, and you cannot preform the same action twice, thus you cannot use the Focus Power Action (be it for a half action power or a free action power) and then make a standard half action attack, but different attack action would not fall under the same restriction, by wording of the rule alone.

And there is another Reaction power: the Telekinetics' Catch Projectiles. But it might make that power a little too powerful if you never have to worry about manifesting other powers in the same round you're being showered with bullets.

Good point re: Catch Projectiles, I had forgotten about that one.

Float can also be a reaction.

I think the problem is the character is tri wielding weapons, maintaining more powers then is probably possible, and using too many powers in a round.

But the others are right, there is no reason for a guardsman to be the top dog combat monster if the psyker built his character to be one also.

xenobiotica said:

I see what you are trying to say and this might come off redundant...

This is how my GM let's me play my character taking from what the errata says.
As a psyker I can only manifest one psychic power per round. So if I choose to Weapon Jinx a minor psychic power. I cannot attack in the same round.
This is what the Errata states:

“Making a Focus Power Action is the psychic equivalent of a
Standard Attack Action, and counts as such for purposes
of determining what else a psyker can do in a round. "

So even if the psychic power is a half action, I still cannot make a standard action attack. I could however take a half action aim and next round fire my gun and gain my previous half action aim bonus. Same goes for free Action powers. Even if they are free actions, the errata states that anytime I make a "Focus Power Action" it counts as a Standard Attack Action.

So say I use “Distort Vision” a free action at the start of my turn in that round I cannot attack, but I can still take other half -action or standard actions... Just not attack.

The errata states that the Focus Power Action is the same as using the Standard Attack Action, and you cannot preform the same action twice, thus you cannot use the Focus Power Action (be it for a half action power or a free action power) and then make a standard half action attack, but different attack action would not fall under the same restriction, by wording of the rule alone.

Considering that different kinds of attacks all count as the same type of action (otherwise, you could also for example use both a standard attack and knockdown in the same round, effectively granting you two attacks without two weapon fighting or swift strike), that doesn't really matter.

To Jonas:

Not redundant at all, I think that's a common way to use the rules. I would, however, also make a case for the fact that a standard attack action is not the same as an attack action , which I will expand on in my answer to Cifer below.

To Cifer:

Yes, it would seem that according to my interpretation a knock-down and an attack is allowed in the same round. Lets look at the wording of the rules about actions:

Half Action (p. 188)

A Half Action is fairly simple, like moving or drawing a weapon. A character can take two different half actions on his turn instead of taking a Full Action. Note that you may not take the same Half Action twice.

To start with, not many attack actions are half actions, there is, in fact, only 3: Feint; Knock-Down; Standard Attack. Lets take a look at Feint first. This is the last sentence of the describing text:

If your next action is anyhing other than a Standard Attack, you lose this advantage.

Feint is made so that you should use it in the same round as an attack, think what would happen if you couldn't. You move to your enemy (first half action), feint (second half action), and win the opposed weapon skill test. Next turn is his, he disengages (or maybe if he is trained in acrobatics: attacks you and then disengages). Now your action directly following your feint is a move because he is no longer in melee, you then lose the advantage, as stated in the rules above. If you're lucky he had an agility bonus of 4 or more and you can instead charge him, but you would still lose the advantage. Clearly feint only works well if you are able to feint and attack in the same round.

Now, knock-down. The reason why knock-down should be allowed in the same round as an attack is also clear from the rules, I feel. First of all, you will have to have a strenght bonus of at least 5 to be able to do any damage with knock-down, and then only if you win the opposed strenght test with two or more degrees. Secondly, you are encouraged to make a move before your knock-down attempt since you will recieve a +10 bonus to your test if you do. And finally, knock-down carries a great risk because if your opponent wins by two degrees or more, you are the one who is knocked down.

I think it's very clrear that all attack actions cannot be considered the same action, which means that you can make two attack actions in the same round. The rule only states that you cannot make the same half action twice. If you don't like the fact that you can use knock-down and standard attack in the same round, make it a house rule that you can't.