My players are now getting onto higher levels and I've deemed it necessary to keep them all in one place ie. Scintilla. It means i can concentrate on one setting with them, the idea was they would set up a venture for themselves which i let them debate what that would be. This means they would be independant and still be able to be called upon by the inquistion, and investigate goings on in their ventures.

Up until this point there has been no real incentive for the characters to continue apart from blind faith which is not always easy to keep going therefore i put this in ie. the carrot.

I reason that too much of the stick and they will lose interest and better gear can only go so far, skills and powers are career choices anyway so having an in-game incentive i hope will give a drive other than "blind faith".

What do folk think of this?

I feel that RPG's should always be driven most heavily by in-game/in-story motivation rather than via "getting better loot and powers"

Leveling as a motivation may work for video games, but a actual RPG is a vehicle for a deeper narative, more akin to a book, film, or ongoing television series. People keep coming back for the stories and characters that interest them, not to see what new toys the portagonists get as they rise in power.

Both reward and punishment have place in such stories. Reward can be fun, but is often fleeting. Complications and tension are better drivers in my opinion as they provide basis for the events necessary to resolve the emerging problems.

As to why the characters do what they do (i.e. why keep working for the =][=) these motivations have to be developed for each character (ideally over the course of the game as the characters develop), no blanket solution really works.

I appreciate your advice and i'll definently think more about in game conflictions and dilemmas, the new venture isn't meant to be a "blanket" to gloss over this it was more to focus the game more.

In that case- feel free to give them a carrot, but make sure they know that there's always a bigger stick in the wings. I, personally, have found that having their =][= grind their noses into how small they are in comparison from and at the beginning works rather well- they get the feeling that they are part of something bigger than themselves, and it means that I can have the =][= lighten up and trust them more as the campaign progresses.

However, you don't have to threaten them with inquisitorial wrath (and, indeed, if you haven't done so before and they haven't done anything to warrant it, it would seem rather jarring)- simply have them make an enemy who can deny them an exit visa. All it takes is one little word to the right someone at the spaceport and they're stuck there. Any further interference you need can be little niggling inconveniences: like harassment by the Magistratum; traders and so on who start to greet them, then go pale and refuse to do business without some spectacular rolls. A subtle stick which hints at a big powerful foe, but could simply be a disgruntled administratum clerk they jostled in the market...

Well, when working for the Inquisition the carrot is, in part, simply being able to distinguish themselves as valuable assets to the =][=. Here's why:

Either the characters are devout and ferverant servants of their Emperor and the Imperium, or they aren't. Both types have a plethora of motivations to stay in the =][=, as it offers things that are not accessible to anyone else but their agents.

The devout should be progressing their careers judiciously, seeking to constantly do their jobs to win the Emperor's favor and protect the Imperium that is so dear to them. For them to want to do anything else would be bizarre, as if they are capable of doing more their Inquisitor should simply send them on more important missions.

For the self-interested, they will never have access to the freedom, contacts, resources, or information they have as agents of the Inquisition any other way. Given the amount of downtime most acolytes manage to acquire, they have more time as acolytes to build their powerbase than they ever would in any other role or job. Plus, the best way to draw unwelcome attention to their "extracurricular activities" is to leave the Inquisition, as such an action raises a tremendous number of questions and suspicions.

Why would they care about something as transient as "cool equipment"? Material good come and go, and are easily attained by anyone with enough time and money, two things they get as agents anyway. If they need something to do their jobs, they're likely to get it issued to them, especially if they've been trustworthy agents up until that time. So really, the question is: Why would they want to leave the =][=? They can be ordered to remain on world, as they are expected to be needed at any time. Unless they feel a desire to leave the =][= for some bizarre reason, that's more than enough.

Games need character advancement, and new shiny toys are a part of that character advancement. It does the characters no good to advance their skills, if their still limited to using a pointy stick and a rock as weapons. Slowly give them the toys they request.

But as said above, always remind them that no matter how many toys you give them, you're the GM and you have access to bigger, badder toys then they ever will. They want a heavy bolter with 10,000 rounds of ammo, Full Best Carpace armor, and complete cybernetic implants, let them earn it but give it to them.

Then reveal at the very end of a scenerio when it isn't important the big bad demon who is immune to bolter fire, and can rip buildings from their foundations with his little finger, then let him disappear.

Have them try to come through customs with an arsenal, get stopped, and have to flash their inquisitorial seals around, tipping off the informant the heretics have quietly planted in the customs office, making their investigation harder.

Give them the biggest baddest weapons they want, then during one of their scenrioes have their inquisitor declare the world their investigating Exterminatus forcing them to flee for their lives because they're about to come under bombardment by a Imperial Fleet reminding them that you're guns are much bigger.

Send them up against an Alpha Plus level Psyker who turns their minds against themselves.

The possibilities are endless. Its not about what toys you give them, its about how responsible they use said toys by your (the GMs) standards and what style of game you're playing. You and they want to play a combat heavy game, then they should have tons of toys. You want to play a Investigative style of game, then they can still have the toys, but prudance suggests they don't use them.

Its when your vision and their vision doesn't agree that leads to real issues of carrot vs stick.

I don't think it makes sense for the PCs to require a reward for going on a mission for the Holy Inquisition. When Lord Inquisitor Holzfeuer says: "Go to Aechton Epsil and arrest Tentus Garn!" the PCs don't wait around and negotiate a reward. They go to Aechton Epsil and do their best to bring in Tentus Garn.

On the other hand, Lord Inquisitor Holzfeuer is a magnanomous leader and rewards success with Thrones. To be sure, some of this come as spending around money, but equipment the PCs requisition from Administratum Adept Titus Vadek comes out of this stipend, with a stern warning not to waste the Emperor's munitions.

-K

kjakan said:

The rewards aren't for the characters they're for the players. Sure many characters won't require any sort of compensation for their work. Paladins in DnD are often heard declaring they need no compensation for their holy work, but that shouldn't stop the DM from tossing them a holy sword or shield once in a while after slaying a dragon or banishing the most unholy of demons. Just because the character didn't ask for compensation doesn't mean the player wouldn't appreciate some from time to time.

Mark It Zero said:

This.

Quite simply a character may be a cleric of a monastic order, completely dedicated to the Emperor, a die hard Thorian, and adherant to the Drucian Cult. So the character would be just as happy to feed the poor on the pilgrimage as he is now, smiting heretics and daemons for the inquisition. So the character is called to join the inquisition, but the character just wants to serve the Emperor.

Now the player though, the player has a vision for his character, its mutable but its a vision. A character who stays at tier 1 for months and months on end isn't just boring, its unbelievable. He's static, unchanging, and even in books the best characters are always changing in front of our eyes.

Toys, the so called carrot, helps promote this feeling of growth. Remember the first time your character was finally able to upgrade from a SP Pistol to a bolt pistol, and the feeling you had when you finally scored that head shot with it? Or the time when your character's brand new Carpace armor stopped that bullet that in his body glove would have toasted him, but the carpace makes it a negligable wound?

It show progress, your character now isn't relegated to fighting mutant rats and giants spiders in the depths of some hive world, but now has the tools to take on progressively harder creatures.

Now that aside, just because your character CAN use a bolter, doesn't mean he has to, or even should. My old arbitrator never went past his heavy pistol, a lasrifle, and a shotgun because that's what arbitrator's used. My current cleric won't give up his las rifle, because if its good enough for the guard, its good enough for him. Mind you he does carry a Sacristan Bolt Pistol from time to time, but he only pulls it out when he knows something bad is going to happen. Otherwise he just carries a Naval Pattern autopistol and occasionally a Naval Shotgun. If its good enough for the Imperial Navy, its good enough for him. Its much easier to calm down a very excitable arbitrator when you're only carrying a SP pistol, then a bolt pistol, and most people don't even blink at someone carrying a standard issue pistol, but concidering the cost of a bolt pistol it draws too much attention.

But the cool thing, for me, is that I have access to that Sacristan. Its not that I use it all the time, its not that I need to use it all the time, its that I can use it, its an option for me that my cleric wouldn't have had at tier 1, and is just as important in my cleric's arsenal as his Black Priest training or his Legate training. My cleric couldn't care less really except that it's useful in the destruction of daemons and heretics, but as a player its the next step up.

Alasseo said:

In other words beat them with a carrot? As a GM I call paladins 'walking plot hooks' because they are so devoted to their cause and have a fixed weltanschaung (worldview) that they are easy to manipulate. Inquisitors are much the same way.Basically offer them something they simply cannot refuse. They are members of the Inquisition and as such should have an ingrained sense of duty. They should want to glorify the Emperor, even if this means different things and is done if different ways. After all, nobody retires from the Inquisition - do they?

Your reasoning works for dedicated volunteers who joined the =][= out of some sense of duty. However, of the acolytes in my game, one want to join the =][= because he's an opportunist who sees the potential for profit, the rest are OIA.

OIA?

We have a few that could be considered on a power trip as well. However that really doesn't change anything. If they want to gain power within the =][= then they have to play by their Inquisitor's game according to his rules. Deviating from this too far could be bad. In effect it is very imporant to keep the boss happy and happy boss could be very profitable.

That was my point, that anyone in the Inquisition should have the same behavioral motivations, even if their actual reasons were completely at odds.

A Docill; I normally lean on my players in order to develope a motivation for them to go on.

In fact, I stopped from the "hireling"-method and changed to tell them right at the character building what the campaign would be about, which side they would represent... and gave them the task to come with "character concepts that leads to character who are motivated to operate for side A ...and ensure you have got reasons not to go on each others throats, too!".

The next time a players character refuses to "keep going" since his "character concepts" tells that his figure is not going to do this anymore, the npc´s will allow him to leave and I will allow him to come up with a new pc.

All in all, some "good will" from the players should be there. If they are not interesting into playing the game, they should stop. If no-one is, the game should stop.

Do we (the players) want to play/continue playing this game? and

Do the characters have motivation to serve/continue serving the =][= are two entirely different questions.

OIA - obligated involuntary acolytes - they got kind of shang-haied into the =][= and didn't have much alternative at the time. (The characters were recruited by being ordered to, they could have resisted, but their chances didn't look good.) Sorry for the abbreviation, it was an obscure reference to a joke in an old movie where one the characters describes themselves as OIO (obligated involuntary officers) after being told that if they quit their military/spy training they'll be shot.

I have to agree that the biggest stick you can offer players and characters are the freedoms being a member of the Inquisition can offer. How many other people really set foot on another planet in their lifetimes? How many sleep in good beds, eat fine meals and if necessary know they have the backing of one of the Empire's most powerful organizations? Not to mention pursuing their other interests which might meet with undue scrutiny or downright inprisonment were they not who they are.

Equipment comes and goes, but that doesn't make it pointless. In my Star Wars game (I use this reference a great deal because it was the last major campaign I ran, everything since has been fleeting) the Mandalorian merc loses equipment like it's going out of style, but he and the player appreciate his ability to get that equipment and replace it when he needs. It is that access which he enjoys, not merely the items themselves.

Something else to consider, equipment for alcolites comes and goes - if they are likely to need item X in the coming mission they will likely be supplied with it, when the mission is done they are expected to return it to the stores and the next mission gives them access to knew and varied equipment. This allows the gm to give players temporary toys to play around with in a wide variety of scenarios, without necessarily giving anything out permanently. Not only does this grant the temporary thrill of playing with new items, but it also gives characters the opportunity to gain experience with items they might never have previously used and even discover a desire for something they might never have thought of. (in which case their inquisitor might use that as a carrot himself)