Hi everyone.

Recently I'm considering running a new campagin in the WH world.

I already own all v1 and v2, and I love them. Though… I've approached this new version.

I'm in need of light in all this darkness…

1. I can't wrap my mind around tidbits. No way. I know of the new P/GM handbooks, are they useable by themselves?
2. Expansion: there are so many expensions, and so focused, that they give me the impression of buying and unfinished product. Are they available without tidbits? Are useable ignoring tidbits?
3. How much "ground" is covered in the PH/GM books?
4. I "need" some expansion?

Thanks

SdG

DeathFromAbove said:

Yes the Game Masters Guide and Players Guide, together with the Creature Guide (the three hardback books) you could play the game without cards, tokens etc. (I assume thats what you mean with tidbits?). It's also entirely possible to use the action cards as "reference cards", and not use the other bits in the game. Overall the game is very modular, you can use more or less of the bits and cards, depending on what you like.

If you plan on playing completely without the components the Players Guide, Game Masters Guide and Creature Guide are the books for you. The other products "assume" that you use the cards and bits.

Emirikol has done a great job of removing "unneccesary" components and streamlined the game into using only few of the components. I think there's a thread about it in the house rules section.

DeathFromAbove said:

The basic rules are found in the Players Guide and Game Masters Guide, and they function on their own. But the other expansions cannot be bought without the bits.

DeathFromAbove said:

All the basic rules, as well as rules for spellcasters, priests, disease, mutation etc.

DeathFromAbove said:

Not per say, as I said, all the basic rules are covered in the core books. You will need to buy some packages of the custom dice for the game though.

Since you own 1st and 2nd edition you have a lot of background material and "fluff" about the warhammer world. It's quite easy to convert 1st and 2nd edition "on the fly" to 3ed (I've done several 1st/2nd edition adventures and just converted difficulties and such at the table while GM-ing, WFRP 3ed has an easy enough system to allow quick conversion like that.
Some of the new adventures might also be interesting for you, but you certainly don't need them to play.

Some final words:

I don't think 3ed should be played completely without components, the game works better with at least a protion of all the bits (such as action cards etc.) even if it's possible to play without any components. I'd recommend you to try with components a few times and then decide if you like it or not. I was sceptical at first, but now I love all the bits and cards.

We don't use the "tidbits" much. We use mostly post-it notes or dry-erase markers to track wounds, fatigue, stress, fortune, and stance.

If you ditch Talent-Sockeing (which I highly support anyways), you eliminate that element. Party cards can be completely done without (any career that mentions it, just give them an extra fortune point instead).

The only things left are whether or not you want to hand players a critical wound card or not. Diseases, and insanities can just as easily be referenced in the GM's guide.

There's absolutely no reason why any "chits" need to be used whatsoever. The cards on the otherhand, I find more useful.

Core set + Players Guide + GM's Guide.

Is there a specific element that bothers you?

jh

Hello!

I love the "tidbits". Instead of having only enough room on your character sheet to write down a keyword and having to constantly flip through a rulebook to figure out what you can do, what the rules are for it, how it interacts with other rules, how often you can use it, etc., it's all on cards laid out right in front of you, and you always know at a glance everything you need to know.

And the wound cards and counters only add to the visceral feel, keeping you intimately connected with your character's status and fate rather than just tracking a bunch of faceless and confusing tallies on a piece of paper.

What if you were in the middle of a battle and forget that piece of paper next session? What if someone else has to run your character, and they don't know if your hit point tally counts up or down?

WFRP3 solves all of that elegantly.

If you want to get rid of the bits and just use the books, then just use the books! The game is fun either way. But I'd recommend trying it a few times.

Thanks boys for all the suggestions.

Unfortunately try will mean buy, and honestly it's too pricey for just a try.

For now I think I'll pass on this one.

You could sit in on one of the online sessions using OpenRPG or Maptool to see how it plays.

Check out the google group

groups.google.com/group/wfrp3-virtual-rpg

My only gripe is with the tokens, loads of them.

I saw some pictures in BGG where players were using d6 dice as counters, so they would put one on top of a card, and use the pips in the dice to count as tokens.

I bought some dice and will do that..

By using dice to count charges in action cards, and for fatigue and stress, the amount of tokens is cut down a lot…

Mestre dos Magos said:

I like the immediate and physical sense of six things as opposed to one thing. It's much easier to distinguish and just looks like more as opposed to putting a die on each card and then having to read the die face.

As long as it works for you, I say go for it.

The wide variety of counters can be misleading. There's no reason why a person has to sort out different counters for each stat. A token is a token. It could be coins for all it matters. If you want to count 5 recharge with a pencil, dice, or WFRP counters of distribution, it doesn't really matter.

In reality, one could do the same thing with WFRP2 (except that WFRP2 characters don't have special abilities/actions, fatigue, stress, or stance).

I think if I were to play Zweihander or WFRP2, I'd definitely make myself a couple critical wound decks, condition cards, etc. I think I'd still track wounds with the tick of pencil though

jh

I respect budget decisions, we have to live within our means.

You want a really great game for low cost there are indie ones like In a Wicked Age though they are definitely to a particula taste.

That said, if you compare a typical "player book + GM book + Monster book" system price to the Core Set price, I don't think the Core Set (which combines all three) is actually that pricey.

The thing about the components is that its an adjustment to how you play the game but its intention is not to speed up the game or organize, but rather to re-focus the games attention.

The biggest problem with modern day role-playing games is that they have become more mechanical, more complex but simultanously attempt to streamline the process of tracking and maintaining organization. The result is a type of gameplay that diverts its attention from the act of role-playing and focuses it on the act of "playing a table top game". The biggest and probobly final offender of this design mentality is 4th edition Dungeons and Dragons. The response by many game designers is to start going backwards (lets make less rules and less focus on gameplay) which is what players want, but not all of them, resulting in a kind of split of community based on play styles (some love Vampire for example for its storytelling but many dislike it because of its ambiguity of rules).

What WFRP has accomplished with its component based game play is allowed both styles of play (story driven and mechanic driven) to exist in the same game by creating a simpler and faster visual sense of "status" to the game. The mechanic driven players can very quickly identify the playing fields mechanical aspects because they are easy to see in large components on the table, while the story driven players can for the most part ignore them as they always have.

This is what components accomplish. Do they speed up the game ? No .. not really. Do they resolve some sort of issue traditional games have? Not really. What they solve is the age old problem of trying to get narrative players and power gamers to sit at the same table and allow everyone to get what they want out of the game within the scope of the exact same mechanic. This is WFRP V3's true magic.