i write this because its true and must be said. all that ffg is doing nowadays is big trailers and events for a junk of content and quality. big sensation and after the promo is done no interest anymore. just like the video games industry !

what about runewars ? its 3 years old and has not half the content battlemist had.

what about talisman. 2007 restarted and still not the content that had been done in the 90s in one year. 5 years for that !

what about battle lore. ffg bought the licence 6 or 7 years ago, just to take it out of the market, doing nothing with it !

descent starting a second edition, there is nothing new that requires a new edition no. it must be a new advertising to get more people buying it. big sensation. in fact its nothing but smaller and fewer, even the box. the cards getting smaller to save paper !! no paper in china ? what in hell are we living in ?

magicrealm said:

Not sure what you mean by that. Battlemist only had one expansion as well, and while it may have had more cardboard chits, Runewars has a TON of components. And honestly, I think Runewars as a game is much better than Battlemist. As far as I'm concerned, Runewars has much more "content" than Battlemist.

magicrealm said:

Can't say much about Talisman, never played it.

magicrealm said:

They are doing stuff with it; maybe not what some fans want, but the Battles of Westeros is exactly what they are doing with it. They bought the license so they could produce that game without any legal issues, and while they have expanded the main line a bit, it's not cheap. If I recall, even Days of Wonders said that the base Battlelore set was no longer viable to produce in its current form due to increased manufacturing costs. If FFG were to sell the base game now, I think it would go for well over $100. Westeros is able to continue because they use less unique miniatures, which reduces the cost of production.

magicrealm said:

Manufacturing costs are going up all around. Descent 1E was no longer viable to produce at a reasonable price. Again, if it were to be rereleased in its current form, the cost to the consumer (after factoring in manufacturing, shipping, and markup by the distributers and retailers) would be easily over $100, possibly more. This isn't unique to FFG - the price of games in general is going up. Even card games are pretty pricey (look at Race for the Galaxy or Dominion, for example). Or look at games like Eclipse or Mage Knight - pricey games, which would have probably been maybe $10-$20 cheaper about 5 or so years ago.

Such is the nature of the economy - when manufacturing prices go up, so do costs to the consumer, and sometimes if you want to stay within a certain target pricepoint, you do have to make changes to your production process.

I'm not really sure what exactly you want FFG to be doing differently here. They are a business, and they are in the business to make money. I find they have one of the best customer service departments I've ever dealt with (not just in the board game industry, but in general), and I find that the games they produce offer me a good value for my dollar based on the enjoyment I get out of them. They haven't seemed exploitative or greedy to me - just a business trying to succeed.

sigmazero13 said:

I agree with this statement, and would further point out that Descent 1e's rules were a giant bloated mess that only got more and more broken with each new expansion, after a certain point.

Maybe MagicRealm liked the 1e rules the way they were, but I for one have been craving a total rules rewrite since AoD came out. I had hopes that RtL would provide some much needed rebuilding of the rules (and, to be fair, they did everything they could without cutting ties completely), but bottom line the game needed a second edition of some description to remain playable.

Perhaps the OP doesn't like the specific ways they fixed the rules in 2e, and that's his prerogative, but to deny that it wasn't necessary to fix them at all is just plain silly. If that were true, there wouldn't have been nearly as much interest in a giant, fan-written FAQ project in the last year or two of the first edition's lifespan.

I disagree with all of you. I think ffg is doing realy nice games with good components and I dont think prices have gone up. Look at the inflation. The value of you money is allways going down. Sure you could say things get more expensive, but compared to what?

Thurines said:

I don't think Steve and I are disputing that FFG makes nice games. However, price has indeed gone up. When I bought Twilight Imperium a few years ago, the MSRP was only $80; it's now $90.

This is definitely due to increased manufacturing costs, as FFG themselves stated in a press release back in 2008:

javascript:void(0);/*1341953675915*/

That they haven't been raising prices since then is an attribution to them as a company, but I think you can still see how that affects their manufacturing when you compare games like Twilight Imperium and Descent 1E which have tons of minis to more recent additions like Runewars, which have much less plastic. If you talk to other gaming companies, I'm sure they would tell you the same story - manufacturing games is becoming more expensive, not in small part due to rising oil prices (as oil affects all aspects of production from plastic, to machinery, to shipping).

I don't think this means FFG is in any way "cheaping out" and trying to get away with giving people less stuff for more money. They are doing what they can to produce very high quality games at a reasonable price. But sometimes, that means having to stop producing certain games when they can no longer do so at a reasonable price. That's part of why BattleLore as a base game has never been reprinted - even Days of Wonder stated that the base set was not a big money maker, and that's part of the reason it went out of print.

Inflation certainly plays a role - but there are many other costs involved that are also playing a role. That FFG is still producing such fun and awesome games is a testament to their skill as a company.

FFG supports what sells. That's just good business sense. They aren't heavily supporting every game once released but why should they? It takes time and money to develop an expansion for a game. If the base game only sold X number of copies, you can be sure the expansion would sell X minus X number of copies. So if the base game doesn't reach a certain threshold of sales supporting it would be reckless in times like this. The Terrinoth games as a whole must do well enough to justify putting out various expansions here and there and releasing new games set in the universe. I don't think any one of them is getting a lot of attention because the market just isn't there. Despite that FFG still supports them when they are under no obligation to do so.

Arkham Horror, the LCG's, and the WH40K RPG's are making money for FFG right now so they are getting a steady stream of support.

Rune Wars came out and probably didn't set the fantasy strategy boardgaming niche world on fire. Especially since one $80 to $100 copy is all a gaming group of 4 players needs. So your lucky to get one expansion. (FYI I didn't really like Runewars and sold my copy but I still love Runebound, and Runeage and wait for any expansions but I don't feel ENTITLED to them.)

How a lack of support for low selling games makes FFG "a junk selling advertise company" I don't really see. I think your expectations are unrealistic and you need to step away from this hobby for a while and take a deep breath.

I can fully understand FFG releasing expansions for their more popular games first, that is just good business sense.

the new edition of descent may have less content than the original, in terms of plastic, but knocking £20+ off the RRP will mean that a lot more copies will be sold which in turn will result in more frequent expansions. I'd imagine the the revised rune wars will have a similar price drop now that it isn't in a large coffin sized box, which in turn will lead to more expansions.

descent 1e owners can use all their existing plastic in 2e by getting the conversion kit and the rune wars rules update is a free download for people who have the original, both of these are attempts by FFG to look after their existing fan base while revitalise key games.

in today's economy the big box games are out of the price range for a lot of gamers, if sales of descent and rune wars pick up then I wouldn't be surprised if twilight imperium follows suit.