Hi guys.

I have a dispute with my group, first background.

I`m a Tech Priest and we foun or rather caused a heretical Tech priest to be consumed by alien mosquitoes and on his corpse we found 2 mechadendrites. The heretek in question is the kind who deals with advanced technology/innovation not corrupted by warp.

Now on to the sticky part - I haven`t used the `drites but the group is convinced that if I do I should get CP which I`m against. I agree and sympatize that finding 2 `drites may be a little too good for a rank 3 character given that other has got nothing, but I disagree on principle that my Tech Priest would get CP for that.. I will post their explanations why that would be the case.

''The GM

I agree that it will more often than not be influenced by the very beings of warp or the warp itself. However, I think there is room for a more moral corruption thing.
Even if things were not infected by some warp-curse, due to the Logicians being a tech heresy (not that Octus is actually informed about Logicians to a degree where he could judge that in any manner), and I am not saying that the Logicians are not in some way related or not related to the daemonous powers; the very fact that the machine spirit might be dirtied, or even corrupted by the hereteks (from an IC perspective) and then integrated into Octus' body without as much as a second thought sounds really heretical to me, and possibly worthy of at least a chance of corruption or some other IC-backlash. That is not to say that you must not stick them into your body, it is to say that those are from an unknown, heretical source; so there might be side-effects.
That is disregarding completely any OOC knowledge about technology being the way it is and just that.

Besides, more elaborate machine spirits CAN and have been corrupted, see chaos titans and the like.''

''Player 1

On the whole corruption thing: I follow Felis in this. Corruption in 40k isn't limited at all to warp and demon afflicted sources only. The Imperium of Man is a totalitarian society and so are the forge worlds of the Mechanicum. Mankind has chosen this road deliberately to protect against the many horrors and threats of this galaxy. Whole organizations (like the Adeptus Arbites, the Historical Revision Unit of Administratum, the ecclisiarchy and of course the Inquisition) where set up just to try to keep the thousands of world in the Imperium in check. Just crossing the line of what is tolerated by the Imperium is already corruption in the eyes of the Imperium (that last bit is important).

And corruption in Dark Heresy works exactly the same way. It is a game-mechanism to indicate that you're deviating from the norm of the Imperium. Having a few corruption points doesn't mean that you start worshipping Chaos or that you are turning into warp-spawn or something. Read through the radical inquisitorial philosophy for example, some of them aren't that radical at all, in fact some of them are quite reasonable in their cores. Take for example, an inquisitor that thinks it is a good idea to study Xenos races and learn from them. For the Imperium that thought is pure heresy.

It is the same thing with corruption, you can follow a philosophy or act a certain way that in your eyes is quite sensible, but for the Imperium is a corrupt/heretic path. The Logicians are the best example. They just make some drones and robots with AI. To us, in our day and age this isn't so special and freaky at all (OK, perhaps the drones/body-snatchers are), but because of the tenets of the Mechanicum the Logicians are hereteks and have to do their work and research in secret. In the eyes of the Imperium a Logician tech-priest is corrupt/heretical/a heretek…''

What are your thoughts on the subject?

Byt the way Here is my response to them.

''There is no ''more elaborate'' or ''less elaborate machine spirits''. Chaos titans and the like are sentient or at least part sentient. It is the human part which gets corrupted and that is due to exposure to the warp.
There is no such thing as corrupted machine spirit. Or at least I have never heard or read of one anyway. There are no warnings or policies against use of captured enemy weapons or Mechadendrites. If there was danger of corruption due to using technology what might have belonged to hereteks surely there would be rules in Ad mech covering that.

Sure, I agree that it is possible that mechadendrite from a unknown source might be dangerous if it is infested by warp (that would count as cursed item or something) or it has other dangers as a tech-virus or something and that is up to you to implement and up to Octus to check for in game. But I disagree that you should gain a corruption point just by choosing to try it on.

Ok an example. Zeta shoots a heretic and takes his weapon. She might even inspect it or give it to Octus to inspect it. It has no mechanical deviations from standart template and she happily accepts it as it is better than her previous weapon and boom - Corruption point.
Well you could say -
A: it isn`t mechanically part of her`s body.

B: So what, as if warp need a direct electrical link to impact people.

A: But it isn`t warp infested it just might be..

In short I would accept CP without a word if the `drites were cursed (had exposure to warp) or other kind of repercussions (f.e. some kind of advanced tech virus) if the GM would think adding such characteristics to the `drites are appropriate. Gaining CP for an action, no for an action no Adeptus Mecchanicus Lore warns against seems fallacy and against the rulebook and innate rules of the universe.
If you guys want to make a houserule, that any amoral actions cause CP, fine by me too.''

Honestly, to actively use these mechadendrites is to actively move towards tech heresy (different from getting CP). The character will start to make certain enemies, and will have something to hide. Depending on how much the group cares about the strictures of the Ad Mech, this may or may not be a problem. What I'm trying to say is that the first "negative" from using these mechadendrites is a purely social one. Life will become harder by actively using those mechadendrites, and I hope you're not just intending to use them to save a few thrones.

On the CP… I have always hard ruled that CP comes about as exposure to warp related anything. If its not the warp, then no CP. Now, this doesn't alievate your issue entirely. The GM does have final say on what exactly is warp touched.

Some technology does tie in to the warp, some does not. A piece of equipment does not necessarily have to of had hard exposure to the warp to be tainted. Perhaps some aspect of the mechadendrites harnesses the warp to fuel the logic of its machine spirits, who knows. It would require careful examination first to truly determine such a thing. I would rule that the device need not be powered to still be tainted (at least, if its powered up once before).

I would very much say its a case by case basis, and without knowing your GMs thoughts on the matter (what these mechadendrites are exactly), there is no 100% answer to this question.

If it is tainted, the amount of CP gained would vary by intensity and duration. If its a very small amount of taint, holding it may very well give no CP. I might force a WP check or take one once implanted, and maybe 1 per month of use. Increase each of these by 1d2 depending on an abstract magnitude of how tainted it is. I would do these in secret between the player and the GM. There is no need for the players to point guns at each other just for taking CPs from something.

There have been many discussions on similar issues. See these threads below for more information

www.fantasyflightgames.com/edge_foros_discusion.asp

www.fantasyflightgames.com/edge_foros_discusion.asp

I also agree with KommissarK that if the mechandrites nets Corruption points, it really depends on what the GM has in mind on their origin. If the Heretek was vastly corrupted due to his tenant with warp exposure, close proximity to daemons, etc. then yes, plugging those rusty heretek looking mechandirtes into yourself would net Corruption points. Now, on the other hand, if the Heretek was not warp corrupted but his mechandrites are clearly heretical in construction, then using them might net 1-2 Insanity points instead, because your faith is colliding with your judgement. IMHO, using a Daemon weapon is going to net you Corruption points, while using a las-carbine from a dead Blood-pact trooper might net you a couple Insanity points, especially if you prefer it over your own Imperial designed weaponry.

And according to fluff touching, using, carrying, harvesting, eating, drinking, etc, anything that is corrupted or that came into contact with vastly corrupted individuals, causes people of faith in the Emperor/Machine God to question your faith. Is the stuff actually giving you corruption points by just handling it? Who knows, that's for the GM to decide. But you can be sure that all other NPC's, who believe in the Emperor's/Machine God's might, will start thinking that you aren't as pure of faith as you once were.