No Individual Customization At Chargen

By Frankie, in Game Mechanics

It bugs me. I like the regiment creation rules, but it's still a shame.

AFAIK, Death Watch has you choose a chapter your PC is from. DH has origins.

But in Only War, there's no individual distinction beyond what you roll for stats, wounds and fate and everyone else.

So how do you rectify this?

One thing I do is let everyone be in the same regiment, BUT they can choose different doctrines if they desire. Plus it reduces any possible friction over playing X because one player wants a certain aptitude from regiment generation.

I think this is what those 600 (300 for support specialists) experience points are for… though I would like to see the costs for non-aptitude skills and talents eased a little to allow for a more interesting spread of character backgrounds. I'd love to see a Heavy Gunner who was a Hive ganger (with Peer (underworld) and Intimidate) and his Weapon Specialist buddy who was a Schola teacher (with Scholastic Lore (Legends) ).

You could consider allowing the support specialists to be from a different regiment than the guardsman characters.

Alternatively there's a google doc somewhere out there that converts various stuff from DH and RT to OW. I think Homeworlds are among them (which could be relevant for most if not all of the support specialists).

Furthermore I guess we'll see player specific background packages or similar stuff in one of the first Supplements for Only War (since something similar was done in DH and RT).

I'd be inclined to allow different homeworlds for supporters - both the Commissar and the Stormtrooper should be from a Schola anyway.

@LuciusT: Atleast DH, and I assume other gamelines also give you starting XP though…

Frankie said:

@LuciusT: Atleast DH, and I assume other gamelines also give you starting XP though…

??

STAGE 3: MOVEMENT, WOUNDS, FATE, AND SPENDING EXPERIENCE
This step is where the player further customises his character. Every Player Character in ONLY WAR starts with 600 Experience Points (or 300 xp for Support Specialists) with which to buy Skills and Talents and improve Characteristics during character creation. These points reflect the character’s life experiences prior to being conscripted. A player can use these Experience Points to broaden his character’s experience, to tightly focus him for specific roles within his squad, or to fit the player’s character concept.

Page 37. Emphasis added.

Uh…what?

I knew exactly what you said, but it seems you're misunderstanding me.

Dark Heresy gave all starting PCs 400XP. I didnt play the other game lines but its very likely they did the same.

Difference is, in those games your Origin wasn't exactly the same as in other games. RT probably still used homeworlds/origins, and Deathwatch had Chapters.

Saying "Oh, but they still get starting XP!" doesn't make it any better.

As I stated already in another topic this has also come up during the character creation in my player group. Normaly Chapter, Homeworld/Background packages or Origin Path gave the possibility to customize your characteristics, to bolster some of them or lessen your weaknesses if you want to be something particular, but the dices just gave you the wrong characteristics. I know point allocation can prevent that, but it is just to clean and perfect, at least for me. It came up by the player that wanted to be the heavy gunner, but rolled 29 for the BS. Well the regiment didn’t boosted BS, so I decieded as compromise that everybody could reallocate three points from on characteristic to another, two times without taking any characistic twice. It solved it, but the lack of customization for a single player showed in our group. And yes every other system also gave you start xp.

Frankie said:

I knew exactly what you said, but it seems you're misunderstanding me.

Obviously, I am and I still don't understand. You get 300/600 exp to customize your character at chargen. I'm not seeing what the problem is.

LuciusT said:

Frankie said:

I knew exactly what you said, but it seems you're misunderstanding me.

Obviously, I am and I still don't understand. You get 300/600 exp to customize your character at chargen. I'm not seeing what the problem is.

At the risk of putting words in Frankie's mouth, he's referring to the fact that in previous systems, characters could be differentiated by starting choices other than spending starting experience and selecting a career/specialty/archetype/whatsitsname.

Morangias said:

LuciusT said:

Frankie said:

I knew exactly what you said, but it seems you're misunderstanding me.

Obviously, I am and I still don't understand. You get 300/600 exp to customize your character at chargen. I'm not seeing what the problem is.

At the risk of putting words in Frankie's mouth, he's referring to the fact that in previous systems, characters could be differentiated by starting choices other than spending starting experience and selecting a career/specialty/archetype/whatsitsname.

Oh! Duh! Now I understand. The limitation of being part of an IG Regiment. Unless it's a mixed Regiment, and excluding folks like Commissars and Storm Troopers, all members of a regiment are drawn from the same world.

Then in that case, I agree. I think they need rules for Mixed Regiments.

Yeah. Right now you can only let people mix it up. Only other thing that could be done are more personalized backgrounds/origins. Like it being based on their former life, and shouldn't be homeworld specific.

I have allways though that an arrange as you wish system would work best for the whole 40K line. roll 9 stats place each one in whichever attribute you want. it lets you actually place your stats to take advantage of the specialization and skills you plan on using without resorting to min maxed point buy.

Yeah, that's what I do. It's a nice compromise since it won't prevent you from being decent in a career/specialty. I always do 9 to assign and then a re-roll of one stat or all stats.

Librarian said:

I have allways though that an arrange as you wish system would work best for the whole 40K line. roll 9 stats place each one in whichever attribute you want. it lets you actually place your stats to take advantage of the specialization and skills you plan on using without resorting to min maxed point buy.

It's why, for point buy, I require my players to put at least 5 into each stat - it essentially means that everyone starts off with a base 25 characteristic, and then have 55 points to spread around.

Customisation, without the min-maxing.

I've played every 40K game FFG has made but Black Crusade (which I own and have read a bunch but haven't played it). One thing that sticks out to me about Only War is that you aren't making an Individual really. You are part of a group of people who weren't chosen for the skill or because they are the best like an acolyte or marine. You were chosen most likely because your name was called in a random lottery or your were poor or something else. You might have served in your PDF or passed some kind of exam or something but so did the other 1000 guys in your regiment, so you still aren't different for that. What I'm getting at is this. In Deathwatch you have Chapters but if you played a Full Chapter game which my group and I have done, and they were all, let's say, Ultramarines then it be closer to Only War; there is only individuality in DW because you are the best from different chapters and in DH because you are hand picked acolytes. Here you are one of maybe a million from your world that is only alive because of your Fate Points really (the Emperor is with you or whatever). In the eyes of command you are no more an individual then your lasgun is different from the one the guy next to you has. I know that means you feel like you are missing something because you don't have any tangible benefit for what makes you "different" besides your specialty. But that is part of the point, your actions and attitude may set you apart but that's what the whole demeanor thing is

I guess getting to the real point, I think most of the system is good (a few mechanical tweaks within the Specialties are needed), they have just enough customization for what it means to represent. Just my two cents, take it or leave it.

I agree with TCBC Freak; I like how this forces a bit more uniformity amidst the players. Unlike DW, RT, BC or DH, this isn't a bunch of people from all over thrown together with different backgrounds; the IG is *supposed* to be people from the same world.

Although players are probably used to being able to be a bit more customizable with their backgrounds, perhaps try to paint this experience as something different, since after all it is.

I think you could make Regiment selection and/or creation into a fun collaborative group process, instead of each player making their own character on their own. This would result in all the players feeling a much stronger bond to one another and their group, and fluff-wise can be a fun process (especially if you go for Regiment creation rather than using the pre-gens). The other up-side to a collaborative process can potentially mean a much more balanced group, instead of winding up with 3 Ogryns and 2 Commissars in a single party (not that the exactly is likely to happen, but you get the idea).

I guess in closing: if you're trying to play true to the idea of the Imperial Guard, your players have to remember the actual fluff behind the Guard and abandon the traditional fantasy idea of "disparate individuals band together for whatever reason," and instead go for the common bond of the Regiment, even if it means some players don't have quite as min-maxed a character as they would like. Try it out before you abandon it entirely.

You could always allow a single weapon customization at character creation. It would add a bit of uniqueness to each character and the gear they use with making up some complicated rules.

DJSunhammer said:

You could always allow a single weapon customization at character creation. It would add a bit of uniqueness to each character and the gear they use with making up some complicated rules.

By RAW, every character gets 4 of them for free (see p.136).

DJSunhammer said:

You could always allow a single weapon customization at character creation. It would add a bit of uniqueness to each character and the gear they use with making up some complicated rules.

The gear a character uses does not customize the character any more than the car I drive defines who I am.

MorioMortis said:

DJSunhammer said:

You could always allow a single weapon customization at character creation. It would add a bit of uniqueness to each character and the gear they use with making up some complicated rules.

By RAW, every character gets 4 of them for free (see p.136).

I don't see the RAW saying that anywhere on page 136. It says thay you can apply up to four weapon customizations with a successful Trade (Armorer) test. It doesn't say that you have done this, only that it is possible.

LuciusT said:

DJSunhammer said:

You could always allow a single weapon customization at character creation. It would add a bit of uniqueness to each character and the gear they use with making up some complicated rules.

The gear a character uses does not customize the character any more than the car I drive defines who I am.

It may not define who you are, but it does show who you are.

HTMC said:

I agree with TCBC Freak; I like how this forces a bit more uniformity amidst the players. Unlike DW, RT, BC or DH, this isn't a bunch of people from all over thrown together with different backgrounds; the IG is *supposed* to be people from the same world.

Although players are probably used to being able to be a bit more customizable with their backgrounds, perhaps try to paint this experience as something different, since after all it is.

I think you could make Regiment selection and/or creation into a fun collaborative group process, instead of each player making their own character on their own. This would result in all the players feeling a much stronger bond to one another and their group, and fluff-wise can be a fun process (especially if you go for Regiment creation rather than using the pre-gens). The other up-side to a collaborative process can potentially mean a much more balanced group, instead of winding up with 3 Ogryns and 2 Commissars in a single party (not that the exactly is likely to happen, but you get the idea).

I guess in closing: if you're trying to play true to the idea of the Imperial Guard, your players have to remember the actual fluff behind the Guard and abandon the traditional fantasy idea of "disparate individuals band together for whatever reason," and instead go for the common bond of the Regiment, even if it means some players don't have quite as min-maxed a character as they would like. Try it out before you abandon it entirely.

It could be a fun process, or be divisive because player one wants X while player two wants Y for that aptitude. There's nothing stopping anyone from having 3 Ogryns and 2 Commissars anyway.

I really don't get how "There should be some individual customization" means or even logically leads to that we want the 'traditional fantasy ideal' of 'idsparate individuals band together for whatever reason".

And really? Implying a bit of customization for an individual PC is minmaxing? I get asking for complete pointbuy is minmaxing but..what? I don't get where you're getting these ideas at all. Noone is asking to minmax or anything of the sort.