Am I the only one who has always thought the Dark Eldar weapons are ludicrously strong in Rogue Trader? Sure the base damage/pen isn't that high, but the full auto rates of fire are huge, and I thought I was of the understanding that the target would suffer from the toxic quality of every hit they take, more often than not giving you that extra d10 past armour and toughness. Sure things with ludicrous toughness values may not fall to it, but I have always felt taht most not vehicel targets are in serious trouble against Splinter weaponry, it was for this reason that I had to cancel an adventure I was planning with a rank 2 party when I realised how potent these weapons are…

Wish I weren't too cash strapped to purchase this right now, I may have to resort to begging my girlfriend….

Also first post, hurrah! Long time lurker and 40K RPG enthusiast though

(N0-1_H3r3 : seeing your writing credits… please keep up the good work!)

Against light-to-moderate armour targets with standard Toughness values, splinter weapons are quite deadly.

I find myself rather torn regarding this new book. On one hand, I rather like the Dark Eldar, despite their new codex and it's so called fluff. On the other hand, I fail to see why any Rogue Trader worth his salt would want to bring along a Kabalite Warrior. I mean, this is a violent, psychotic soldier of a race known for its cruelty and backstabbing nature. Any reasons given in the book itself? Oh, and does it offer any upgrades in the form of cybernetics or fleshcrafting?

Rennac said:

N0-1_H3r3 wrote the Kaballite Warrior rules!

Chacha said:

In the WH40K universe, humans are known for their cruelty and backstabbing nature, and most Arch-militants are violent and possibly psychotic, so…

All of the given xenos - dark eldar, orks, and kroot - have alien elements to them that make including them a challenge. This is quite different than many traditional fantasy RPGs where including non-humans was intended to be easy. Allowing any of the xenos should be a group decision, not just the decision of the player itching to play one, since it can alter the entire direction of the group. For example, xenos characters can create unacceptable levels of friction in groups where one (or more) of the player characters is a devout follower of the Imperial Creed - something I would see as being much more common than not having such a character in the group.

A Kabalite Warrior is specifically included as a potential asset for the Soul Reaver mission. It can certainly be used beyond that, and there are a few suggestions for why. Simply put though, Rogue Traders are eccentric and powerful individuals, and some of them might simply enjoy the prestige that comes from having such a dangerously exotic ally. They make a fine instrument of terror to keep as a threat against mutiny, and depending on the RT's tolerance for such, the DE could be given wider scope to hunt down undesired elements aboard the RT's ship.

HappyDaze said:

It is, though it is quite a potent Talent in its own right (typically adding between +3 and +5 damage and Felling (1) to all Toxic weapons the character uses, and there are plenty of Toxic weapons in the Dark Eldar armoury). The talent itself is sort of meant to represent the Lhamean attendants that you can buy as part of an Archon's retinue in the Codex - true masters and connoisseurs of the poisoner's art. I think it'd be available a fair bit sooner for a hypothetical Haemonculus career path, admittedly - a Haemonculus with a Stinger or Liquifier Gun and a Scissorhand plus Disciple of Shiamesh and a variety of poisons (one of my favourite parts of writing this project was coming up with a range of alternative toxins) can wreak some serious carnage.

For anyone who has (or gets) the book, I would really like to hear how Kabalite Warrior characters fare "in the wild" as it were - it'd be great to get a little bit of confirmation as to whether they're every bit as cruel and vicious as I intended them to be…

I assume it wouldn't be possible for you to produce a fan supplement on your page for alternate Dark Eldar career ranks would it N0-1_H3r3?

Very much looking forward to getting my student loan and making Soul Reaver my first purchase with it XD. Possibly a couple Dark Eldar Venoms to go along with it…

N0-1_H3r3 said:

I will be desperately searching online for a place to play a Kaballite Warrior, and if I find one, I'll be sure to let you know! =)

I dont suppose you'd be able to reply on the Deathwatch forum to the DeathHeresyTrader thread, and give your feelings on how to balance that, assuming you have any? Heh.

Rennac said:

I probably could, but it's less a matter of willingness and more a matter of available time - I've got paying assignments that take priority over personal projects (because a professional assignment has deadlines and a contract, and because I need any extra money I can bring in at the moment), and other personal projects that I've started and should probably finish before I start on new ones (like my Forbidden Lore supplement for Black Crusade).

When I test a DEKW, I'm going to take a Skyboard as my free acquisition and get Pilot (Personal) with my starting xp. Superb mobility that grants extra AP and comes with a built-in weapon equivalent to a short-ranged shardcarbine - hell yeah!

Are there any Unnatural stats on the Dark Eldar, or modifications to the starting stats?

My copy of the book is theoretically on its way, but since Honour the Chapter is as well, I'm not too optimistic about swift delivery. I am, however, very interested in Dark Eldar as PCs!

T 20+2d10, Agl 30+2d10, Per 30+2d10, Fel 20+2d10, all others 25+2d10. Dark Eldar start play with Unnatural Agility (x2). At Rank 8 they can purchase Unnatural Agility (x3).

Thank you very much for the information.

Any chance of someone's thoughts on how possible it would be to use the Kabalite Warrior template as a basis for a not-insanely-evil character?

I'm thinking there's a lot of precedent for Eldar becoming Dark Eldar and vice versa, so perhaps something in this line (a disaffected Eldar who joined the Dark Eldar and found that wasn't to their taste either) would offer a character more palatable to those who aren't keen on all-out torture frolics.

I appreciate the characters have been designed with your average Dark Eldar in mind (though one that wants to leave Commorroagh in the first place must be a little unusual), but wonder if you could get away with cage-fighting in the underdecks and murdering enemies in defence of the Rogue Trader to sate needs, rather than demanding a ready supply of unwilling victims?

I ask because the game I'd like to use a Dark Eldar in has a Rogue Trader played by someone who hates the whole idea of Dark Eldar PCs. I'm hoping some compromise could be reached using fluff rather than bending or remaking the rules.

Yes, the dark eldar can sate his hunger in semi-acceptable ways by acting as a 'judicial champion' or such for the RT, or even from killing enemies. Also, if the ship has a brig, the dark eldar gain sustenance just by standing within (PB) meters of the suffering - he doesn't have to cause the suffering to gain from it. If he wants to be a bit morbid, he can gain this from walking through the medicae deck too. No matter what though, he's going to be a black hat from the point of view of the crew.

The novel Path of the Warrior has a Striking Scorpion that used to be an Incubi.

HappyDaze said:

He could probably disguise himself if he chose.

Thank you for the responses, that's really helpful and positive. It sounds like Dark Eldar characters could be made to work in any game where the Rogue Trader is open to xenos aboard the ship and the benefits of non-Imperial personnel and technology in general.

I like the idea of concealing your true nature, but you'd need a very mature group of gamers to roleplay that sort of deception. With the right people, it could be a lot of fun.

Niqvah said:

Give them twinned swords and a panther companion?

But being serious now, there is some evidence to back this up (though the codex-only-as-canon folks would say otherwise) as in the Imperial Armour book about Mymeara it talks about how Eldar Corsairs are basically a bunch of rebellious Eldar delinquents who can't stand the regimented and cloistered life of the Paths, abandoning them to go off adventuring, and basically living the life of a natural Eldar (ie: being a prick to everything now Eldar). It talks about how sometimes these individuals get too caught up in the freedom and fall more and more in to excess, and eventually move on to join the Eldar of the dark city.

So yes, Eldar can become Dark Eldar apparently. Whether they're fully susceptable to the Thirst, and need to fight it in the usual ways… well, I'd say yes, since that's the whole point of the Paths and living on the Craftworlds. Once abandoned, they should logically suffer every bit as much as the Dark Eldar do, who don't have such a means of staving it off (their debauchery, and feeding on pain aren't 'really' a way of shielding themselves, just indefinetly delaying the draining of their soul). Though the codex also mentions that at this point, the Dark Eldar have practically diverged far enough to be a sub-species of the race.

Whether a Dark Eldar could repent and 'become' like the regular Eldar.. I won't say it's impossible, but it's one of those things that would be very difficult and a great rarity, due to just how corrupt the Dark Eldar are, their lifestyle indulges all the worst aspects of the Eldar psyche.

I haven't read the Dark Eldar codex fluff recently, but there are examples of Eldar becoming Dark Eldar and vice versa in recent Black Library publications. The different approaches they take to avoiding the predation of She Who Thirsts are, according to BL, interchangeable if one is willing to put the effort in.

Fortunately, the 40k roleplay games offer a wide range of grey shades, rather than being restricted by D&D's more black and white concepts of morality. I would not advocate playing a 'good' Dark Eldar (what is 'good' in the 41st millennium, anyway?), but I would like to play one who does not constantly grate with other crewmembers. It seems this is nicely catered for.

Seeten said:

There's a big penalty associated with trying to disguise yourself as a human. IIRC, it's listed as -30 in The Soul Reaver, so it's not something that's really going to work all that well.

Niqvah said:

One thing to remember is that Kabalite Warriors (who represent a fairly elite group - the majority of Dark Eldar never get the opportunity to venture beyond the Dark City, so even the least Kabalite Warrior is a ruthless, cunning and deadly individual) are innately political creatures. At its heart, politics is the art of acquiring and wielding power - the ability to exert more potential force than your rivals (through being stronger, through having more allies and followers, through knowledge or fear or whatever other methods you favour) means that you are more able to get what you want or deny them what they want. Trueborn are raised in this arena of vicious politics, while half-born ascend to it through cunning and murder. There are no true laws, only actions and consequences. In one situation, murder may be the best option, while in others it may have unfortunate repercussions. When you aspire to more power, the key is to maximise the effect of your actions while eluding the worst of the consequences… and this often means staying your blade when your thoughts turn murderous.

Those sorts of savage politics are common amongst Peers of the Imperium as well - when you're dealing with people for whom the normal limits of society do not apply, it becomes far more about alliances, threats and the capacity to bring force to bear to exert your will. In this regard, a Kabalite Warrior and a Rogue Trader are likely quite similar - they both know that there are many ways to exert one's will upon the universe, and are often ruthless enough to employ them all without hesitation.

A Kabalite Warrior allying him or herself to a Rogue Trader (who is, by any other measure, a crude mammal barely fit to dwell in caves let alone voyage amongst the stars) is doing it for selfish reasons. In order to achieve his or her own ambitions, that Kabalite Warrior is required by necessity and expediency to play nice with the humans… they may only be a means to an end, but it is foolish to rid yourself of a tool while your task still requires it. In essence, the Kabalite Warrior will not murder or torture or otherwise do something that would endanger his place aboard the Rogue Trader's ship… at least, not while the Rogue Trader's crew and vessel remain useful.

HappyDaze said:

I prefer the Reaver Jetbike - nothing compares to the joy of a fly-by decapitation at top speed. I made it a point that the Bladevanes on the Reaver allow the rider to eviscerate other jetbikers (or the pilot of a Raider, or some other exposed person on an open-topped vehicle) without touching the enemy vehicle.

If you're going with the Skyboard, though, be sure to try and acquire a Hellglaive as soon as possible - they're valuable tools for Skyboard riders, and are fine weapons for butchering prey at high speed. Also look at acquiring a decent supply of combat drugs and/or alternative poisons to load into the Splinter Pods (Sanguinary Exodus is fun because it's a lingering death, Vitae Rebellion is simply brutal, but Liquid Agony or Nightmare Philtre are preferable options if you want to incapacitate your prey before slaying them).

Kind of OT:

I'm eager to see this,since I've been planning a Seven Samurai inspired Deathwatch one-shot using the Dark Eldar as antagonists. Would you say this book has what I need in spite of the difference in power level between games?

In any case, I'm excited.

Ferau said:

Plenty of Dark Eldar stats to draw from, and an extensive armoury to boot (including vehicles!). I'm itching to use Dark Eldar in Deathwatch , too. Their main weapon- the Splinter Rifle- does 1d10+2 Pen 3, Toxic (I think- I don't have the book handy). That means that most shots will harmlessly plink off power armour, but the few that get through will cause signifigant damage- and with a full-auto RoF of 10 (if memory serves), a few will get through. Should make for an interesting dynamic. Fielding Kabalite warriors as Hordes would almost certainly be overkill, though- adding a d10 to that many shots sounds like a TPK… However, I suspect that Wyches will have to be fielded as Hordes (unless armed with special weapons) to be able to threaten Space Marines.

I'll probably use a blend of the rules from Soul Reaver, Black Crusade and Only War, depending on how they compare. I've loved the DE as antagonists ever since they appeared in Purge the Unclean for Dark Heresy. Three years later, my players were still chasing Akirvas. Good times.

I'm wondering if any of the more bizarre war gear from the codex is in here, like that box full of invisible ravenous warp spirits. Or maybe that shard of glass that does something nasty when you break it.