One thing that my little group of AGoT players has stayed away from is the whole idea of revealing plots outside the plot phase, most likely because we aren't entirely sure what happens. Do plot effects stack? Do you just swap out the gold/initiative/claim values?

For example, I have The Power of Blood revealed during my plot phase, and my opponent has Bungled Orders. I lose a military challenge, and only have a noble crest character out. The framework action says 1) Determine winner of challenge, then 2) Implement challenge result. So I'm guessing that 1) We determine I lose the challenge, then Bungled Orders goes off (It says "After a player loses a challenge," not after the results of a challenge are implemented), so I reveal a new plot card. Is the ability of The Power of Blood still in effect, or is it canceled by the revealing of a new plot card?

In a similar vein, what happens with The Art of Seduction? You can choose a player to not reveal a plot card in the next Plot phase. Do they continue to use the same gold/initiative/claim of their last plot card, or do they get 0/0/0 since they haven't revealed anything this phase? Does whatever plot effect carry over to the new turn?

Thanks in advance

Varrec said:

With a very few exceptions (i.e. ones that expressly create lasting effects ), only the stats and effects of your revealed plot card are active. Thus, if your are forced to reveal a new plot card when you have Power of Blood revealed, its effect ends. (Likewise, if you have, say, Focused Offense revealed and reveal a new plot card, FO's prohibitions on you declaring more than more challenge and declaring defenders is removed.) Bungled Orders will resolve as a passive at Step 4 of the Framework Action in which you lost the military challenge, though, so POB will still be in effect when Claim is resolved (inside the Framework Action Window).

With AoS, any player who's "stuck" with their plot card gets the stats on that card until it's replaced (but does not get to trigger the "when revealed…" effect again since it won't be revealed again). So, if you time your AoS to coincide with your opponent playing Valar, your opponent gets 2 gold, 0 initiative, and 0 claim until he can reveal a new plot card (but the kill effect will not happen again).

Varrec said:

So, if you reveal a new plot, the text becomes active, the "when revealed" effect is resolved, and the stats (gold, initiative, and claim) become the "current" stats for anything that refers to them. But you do not "redo" anything that referred to those stats before revealing the plot - you do not, for example, re-count your gold or re-determine the First Player for the round.

Varrec said:

If Power of Blood is replaced, it's text is no longer active and your Noble characters do not get the "cannot be killed" benefit. This is no different than, if Power of Blood was your Round 1 plot, not getting the "cannot be killed" benefit in Round 2 for the simple reason that Power of Blood is no longer your revealed plot.

However, you are playing the challenge phase wrong. The framework action says:

1. Determine winner of challenge
2. Implement challenge result
3. Award unopposed
4. Award Renown

But the way that framework actions windows work says that you must complete all 4 of those things before passive effects or Responses to any one of them happen. That is, you do not get to do "after you win/lose a challenge" passives (like Bungled Orders) or Responses between 1 and 2. Instead, you do it after 4.

So yes, while the Noble character loses the benefit of "cannot be killed" when you lose that challenge because Power of Blood stops being the active plot, it doesn't stop being the active plot until after the claim effect is resolved (plus "unopposed" and Renown). (Note that the text on Power of Blood is not "canceled" by revealing a new plot card; it's just replaced. It's not active anymore. There's a big difference between "not active anymore" and "canceled".)

Varrec said:

Effectively, you just have to remember that plots have 3 states: in the plot deck, revealed, and used. The plot stays "revealed" until something replaces it - which sends it to the used pile. Only the text of the revealed plot card is ever active, and only the stats of the revealed plot card are ever referenced.

Thanks, that makes a lot more sense. I'll probably spring some plot switching effects on my group this weekend

How is initiative affected by this type of action, if the new plot has a different initiative value from the previous plot?

MarthWMaster said:

Easy: whenever you need to know what your Initiative is (for example for determining the First Player, or for card effects like Ambush from the Plains), you look at your currently revealed plot card and use that number (plus any modifiers). There's only one point during the round at which the First Player is determined. You compare INI then do see who gets to name the FP. If a plot is switched at a later point in that round, you don't do it again.