In my point of view, white borders kill the atmosphere, the impact of illustrations and of the overall game.

We can understand that white borders and poor quality pasteboard and printing permit to Fantasy Flight Games to lower costs but if that decision kill the game itself it's not the good way.

I prefer pay 1 or 2 $ more for each Asylum pack but keeping the pleasure of diving into this so special and so dark atmosphere, keeping the pleasure of having so beautifull cards with high quality of printing and touch.

If you want to promote the game you must create desire in (new) player's mind.

I don't think it will be possible with a living card game that looks like and fells like a really cheap 52 cards poker games.

Please tell us you opinion.

Thank you very much.

I don't mind the white borders. You are right that the cards look brighter but I'm not sure that it kills the atmosphere, as thats in the mind of the player. I can easily ignore that and focus on the game.

first it's good that a new players brings this topic.

but we have tried it in the old boards and that is the company's response-

http://www.cthulhulcg.com/cocforums/posts/list/10544.page#203987

Hello All,

It's time to put this to bed. FFG will produce both the AGOT and CTHULHU card games with white borders in their new LCG format going forward. We aim to make these games as great as they can possibly be, and I think that we have proved our stamina, mettle, and loyalty to these games. I question the wisdom of grating us to the point where we question whether the fight is worth it (Although many suggestions, including Hastur's, have been sensible and well thought out.)

I don't know where all this entitlement comes from. I'm sorry if a player doesn't like the choice, I'm happy if a player likes it. For the complaints, we have noted them, appreciated the feedback, thought about it, but we're not returning the games to black borders. We don't have a service contract on our games, nor does a voting ballot come with them. We aim to make great games, and we hope players like them. If you don't, we regret to see a player go, but that's the way it goes sometimes.

If this border change actually is sufficient to make you leave the the game, then ciao, baby. You're probably on the way out anyway. Trying to somehow bully us, call us names, whine, or claim the right to demand anything of FFG (other than properly produced packaging and components), is misguided at best.

We always, and hope that we have continually proven, listen to concerns, issues, and opinions from our customers. When these go overboard, however, I'll be sure to tell.

I'm telling now.

Brutal and callous: yes
The facts: yes
Care about the future of the game: yes.

"Death smiles at us all. All a man can do is smile back."

Christian T. Petersen
CEO
FFG

(that's the spaniard guy )

I personally don't think the white boarders are ugly or wrong or whatever.

What does annoy me is the constant "change it back, whah..." of what seems a vocal minority.

I'd like to start a petition to stop people from petitioning to remove white borders.

Face it, your battle is lost. Suck it up, find a new cause. Fight polution or overpopulation or a real problem with the world.

Sorry if I seem grumpy, I just woke up... - Stu

Urban : Thank you very much for quoting this officiel answer.

This answer is quite rough but apparently due to the fact that FFG is bored to receive lot of complains.

People that play to Call Of Cthulhu really loves this game and don't want to stop playing.

This people that supports the game and bring it alive just say what is the best for it (in their opinion).

Uberursine : I don't say old things / the past are always better. I'm for the best, nevermind if it's old or new.

For exemple, living card game format is a very good thing for both :

- players : they are sure to have all cards with 3 packs,

- and FFG : they are quite sure that each player buys 3 packs every month.

Please continue to leave us your opinion and comments.

actually the "change it back" isnt the minority. its just most of us went through this months ago and no longer care. there were only a handful of us that actually didnt mind the white border change, most hated it, and no one thought white was better than black.

but this horse has been beaten to death, im sure its great-great-great grandhorses will have brusises from the beating it took.

good , if said, point.

For me, I let my wallet speak - I used to buy 3 copies of each AP, but after te change to WB format, I buy one.

And the rest - it was already told on the old boards, if you have some free time, take a look there.

When games transition they often need a symbolic difference to trigger an understanding in the consumer. Especially when a new market and a new format is concerned. It's also a fresh start for them, and contrary to our self-importance, the designers need good morale as well.

Are the differences perhaps unsettling? Sure, ok.

Something to rally the troops about? I still understand and empathize, but it is pointless to bring it up.

Honestly, I use black and white and my opponent never "knows" what I have because of the back of the card. Just don't worry about it, unless you sleeve them for uber-competition formats. And be a bit proud, you're "old school" man.

Just curious, but I wasn't around when they were first starting to complain about the switch. I played in the black board days, and miss them. BUT, when I got my hands on the new cards and saw how nice and bright everything was, I stopped complaining. Do people honestly know why they swicthed? Because I know for a fact that it wasn't a "gee golly let's shake things up" and was instead a "switching to a new cardstock that black boarders just didn't work" thing. I know esthetically it's not the same, but if I get more sturdy cards that may hold up to abuse a bit longer (and thusly not having to run out and buy another set) and deal with the boarders being off... oh well. I personally think they look great, and this from someone who desperately traded away all of his white boardered Magic cards in favr of black boarderd versions when availible.

First off:

Pandafarmer said:

Thats really a hard decision, to trade all Magic-Cards just to have black borders, but i understand it very well. None the less:Wow!

I am just starting to play the LCG, but by mistake, i also ordered some older CoC CCG-Asylum Packs. So i now have both, the white and black borders. First of all, i also think, everybody should stop whineing. Yeah, IMHO the block borders do look better (Dexter Ward in this dark embedded background is just great). But they won't switch back. i think, it is to make absolutely clear, that the times of the CCG are over. Personaly, i also think it is because of money issues, because it is cheaper not to use all that beautiful black ink. Everyone with an InkJet will understand this. Since the CCG didn't work well enough to continue on, they also needed to rethink, how to make things cheaper in order still to make a profit out of it. Therefore it is also easier for new Players (like me) to join. And secondly, i think the decision for white border Cards is aimed for this new audience. Now experienced players cannot screw over newbies by adding overpowerd old edition cards to their decks without having the newbie ask:"Why do your cards have black borders??". But maybe i'm wrong with both my theories .

PearlJamaholic said:

Hahaha, or we still care but just know that we don't matter.

Being new to the game I've never seen the black-bordered cards.

So, I like the look of the new cards. Actually, they don't look like the typical collectible cards at all. They look exactly like normal playing cards and I think that's a good thing!

White borders is like trying to have a horror atmosphere during a day time. Not working right. I definitely think COC cards with black borders looked much better.

There was a lot of complaints from players side, both Call of Cthulhu and A Game of Thrones, about the switch to white borders going on. So many people were dissatisfied that even the top boss of FFG, Petersen, posted on both boards [see his post above]. Petersen basically said, we don't care if you like it or not, so shut up and buy or quit the games ("ciao, baby").

The whole switch to the LCG format supposed to make the games better, but there is still lots to improve (the fixed packs for the games - YES, YES, YES, a great idea! More and more typos in cards text; reprinting cards without errata or as a wrong faction is wrong. I am glad to see the packs release schedule is getting stable and predictable at least). Petersen said they aim to make their games as great as they can possibly be. I think FFG should stick to that aim harder and definitely work on respect for their customers and at least listen to what they have to say.

I feel players resentment regarding the changes, but FFG black borders is a lost battle.

Ciao, babies!

"Oh my god, this fu**ing white borders make me sick ! "

At least you don't play on a black table :-D.

And yes, black is beautiful. but we have all to accept the white borders and just be done with it.

Nice picture though, always good to see people play CoC

That's Mr. Lang (designer of CoC CCG) in the picture.

Who, strangely enough, is not black.

It's an inside joke. Don't hurt me!

I don't think it kills the game. As i said before, black is better. But since the decision is done and they produced and selled already a whole bunch of copys, what do you think would happen, when FFG anounced:"Thrash your white-borders, we going back to black". People would run amok. So, we have to accept it. And since the core set is aimed at a new fanbase, they wouldn't know, that there have been ever beautiful black bordered cards.

Interesting that one would say that white boarders takes away from the art, as imediately I noticed how crisp and clear the artwork is now, and I've noticed things in pictures right away that I never new was there even after years of playing with the same card in black boarder days. Of course, that has more to do with good grafic design than the white boarders per say.

Honestly though guys, this is beating a dead horse, as the reason why they switched to white boarders isn't as arbitrary as people think it is.

Well, the did lighten a lot of the images in the core set and cropped the artwork and zoomed it in. So, that could be one reason the art is so crisp and you noticed new things in the Core Set that you never saw in black bordered cards.

Unfortunately this is a dead issue. We all rallied around and complained and made our ideas known and it didn't change FFG's mind. We have to live with it now and move forward.

Hastur said:

Well the thing is, the issue NEVER has been about "let's switch to white boarders just to make things look different and new." If that were the case, they might have actually gone back to black after hearing the complaints.

Pandafarmer said:

So, what was the issue?

ive played card games such as magic the gathering with both white and black borders and no matter the theme of a card game i think white is the best looking border on a card

Carioz said:

Something about the new card stock from what I've heard.

Pandafarmer said:

While this might explain everything to other people I am too dumb to get what you mean.