FF, please make a Xenos-centric game. Obviously, Eldar is iconic. Tao would be cool to.

FF Forum members, show support for this.

Corrinmana said:

Sorry, too busy Burning Heretics, Killing Aliens and Purging the Unclean.

Colour me xenophobic, it is my duty as a faithful servant of the Emperor after all.

Interrogator Z.

Edit: Why do the smiley faces always go to the start of my posts?

Suffer not the Alien to live!

Need a bit of clarification. Do you mean:

1) A game where the prime objective is to defeat Xenos forces
In which case I believe Only War will fit the bill well enough.

2) A game where you roleplay as the Xenos
In which case… That's a tall order.

The problem with playing as an Alien Race is making the player characters relatable. Because Eldar fall to one extreme of human behavior it is very difficult to have a lot of personality variation. Maybe I'm crazy, but having a group that consists of fit, agile, and eloquent soldiers that can adapt to almost any form of war for which there people have aspects is kind of…well…homogenous.

Tau are even more homogenous in their goals and their physicalities, with the only variation being their caste system. (I doubt many players are going to want to play as Water or Air caste)

Warhammer 40,000 humans are relatable to ourselves because their personalities can be extremely diverse. Their culture has been represented as something resembling our own, and thus affords much easier role play.

I'm sure there are groups out there that could make a great roleplay experience with the Xenos races, but it would be quite a bit more challenging. I imagine FFG's primary objective is to craft a game that's accessible to the largest crowd and doesn't wager on the level of it's players sophistication.

IdOfEntity said:

+1 and also, those kind of request usually end up being answered by other GMs who are interested in the idea, not the game developers themselves. Most of the other races suffer from being homogenous not only physically, but mentally. For exemple:

Tyranids: Consume…that's it…well, also reach the Astronomican, but we don't know what what for if not absorbing one of the most powerful being in the galaxy. That's still a pretty single minded goal IMO. Also, Hive Mind, so one player for the whole fleet WOOT.

Tau: Expand the community and belief of the Greater Good. Which is okay, if we forget IdOfEntity's argument and the fact that the Ethereals controls the population through some weird power warhammer40k.wikia.com/wiki/Ethereal_Caste , which is too much like Tyranids in my opinion.

Orks: Loot and Fight, Fight and Loot. Even if they have slightly different personalities, their goal is too generic. Fight and loot is like playing D&d, but without purposes or goals. Kinda like the feeling you get in most cheap MMORPG, kill the monster…gain loot…level up….equip new loot…kill more powerful monsters and so on… They are the only ones with the Eldars that would be playable IMO.

Necrons: ppffftttttt…they don't even have a personality to begin with… except the necron lords, but they are too powerful to be playable characters.

Dark Eldar: pain, kill, ****, pain, kill, ****… And their reason for doing it, even if it may sound justified, is stupid IMO. Doing things that Slaanesh like, in hope he/she/it won't take their souls when they die (second paragraph---) warhammer40k.wikia.com/wiki/Dark_Eldar , is like making yourself bleed when you're in a pool full of sharks…it's realllllllyyyy stupid, even the Orks are not that dumb in comparison.

Eldars: They apparently have a far deeper understanding/reactions to emotions, which make the roleplaying part more difficult for us, except if we decide it doesn't matter. Their Far seers can read the future so well it makes a couple essential things disappear: Challenge, Not knowing how the story ends and a Good learning curve for the players.

Don't get me wrong, I'm not trying to tell anyone it's not possible, it's only my opinion in the end. But I did highlight some big problems that Humans (Imperial or Chaos) don't have. I still believe Eldar & Orks would be playable, but less enjoyable. And it's only fluff we've talked about since the beginning, mechanic-wise there could be some problems. Like races being powerhouse from the start, etc.

Isn't the irony that in RT they have Dark eldar and Ork both as playable? (correct me if I'm wrong)

Lots of text ahead, sorry x_X

I think there's some fallacy in saying you can't roleplay "x". I say this in a very broad and generic sense, in that, all constructs of roleplaying are a construct of the human mind: The careers, races, powers, etc. are all conceptualized in the human mind and so everything is defined within that context. I think you border on the line of absurdly pretentious when you say "I created 'blank' and you can never fathom it or its mind' well, yes I can, because you're human and so am I.

I've read articles, mainly on the lexicanum website, that talk about how inhuman and unintelligible it is to think like a tau, eldar, or ork and having descriptions like "the standard mindset would be like being murderously insane by human standards" and what it makes me realize is that most of these descriptions are being described by the point of view of the Imperium toward these other races, and with the same xenophobic mindset. Honestly I think any race could be played, but that each one has a special focus or tendency in what game play mechanics would suit their use.

I for one could happily roleplay a dog, roaming around with near aimlessness, sniffing other dogs butts and playing fetch. Guarding my master or sleeping and having dreams of catching smaller animals. The question is not if we can do it, but how fun is it? A tyranid campaign would feel rather guided, much like playing a videogame. You have a single goal for which all you're energy and focus are upon (think like gears of war) and all your tools are geared for that and nothing else. A game like that is all about the consumption of combat and the gm would lead you by the claw from one conflict to the next.

In the previous example we have what I think is the sacred cow in tabletop RPGs that give people this feeling of restriction. That is, specifically, that table top feels like this place where you 'should' have complete freedom or at the very least loosely guided freedom and that your character needs to have some deeper significance than "I'm a licktor" and my mind is not my own. The truth of the matter though is that if you have Gurkhul or Zakalwe or myself play a Licktor you'll find that we will most probably play them differently (sure within the scope of how a lictor acts but with our own interpretations) which honestly I feel is at the core of roleplaying, the ability to act within the scope of the universe your in, but also invest yourself in your interpretation of your character.

All that being said, I understand that bad roleplaying experiences are easy to have when scope and gameplay mechanics do not match up. The example of the far-seer is a perfect one. If you 'know' what's going to happen then how do you challenge them? if you were to setup a DH style investigative slant on that, the system breaks down. Such a game needs to be built with those mechanics in mind, and challenges specifically for those occasions.

With that in mind, I'm pretty vehement in my feeling that we only serve to better our collective roleplaying experience with more content and that each aspect of the 40k universe should have at least a suppliment to give us as players more options. That's the beauty of table top is that developers can help us to craft our own unique experiences within a rich universe

Skeletor said:

Wow! I don't even get honorable mention and I agree with you! It is certainly possible to Roleplay any of the Myriad races of 40k! Many Posters said that Space Marines did not have enough personality to play and yet we have Deathwatch! Rogue trader includes Orcs, Kroot and soon even Dark Eldar as playable races. (I'm not sure why FFG didn't go with true Eldar but that is another story!). The Question is How fun would it be? Being a Ravenous Tyranid or a Mindless Necron would Bore me to tears but some might enjoy it! What about lesser Xenos like the Slaught? Certainly possible! In Black Crusade it is technically possible to be playing a Daemon! (Talk about your different mindset! ) Certainly Zak (And I for the most part) will continue to roam the Galaxy meeting new and interesting Xenos and purging them from existence! Others may wish to play differently and I would support them in this!

Unless its a xenos game based on Nids or Necrons, I can't say I've any real interest…

… Sure would like to see a game - or at least a DH supplement - about the Officio Assassinorum though…

Radwraith said:

Rad you play the best Lictor, that's why I didn't mention you, I was jealous

I think alot of it comes down to the danger of the "samey" feeling game systems can have. Example:

Inquistior (superior) tells acolytes to go and investigate the activities of a hive gang that could be heretical (challenge). Turns out they are and the acolytes dispatch them (resolution). The acoyltes return to the inquistior and he promotes them and gives them the next mission (reward)

You could use this system to pretty much craft any role playing (video game, movie, etc) experience.

Genestealer Matriach (superior) sends an impulse to the Genestealer group to begin the convert phase of its mission (challenge). Through cunning, deciet, manipulation, and murder the Genestealer group gains a following of devoted followers (resolution). The Tendril of the nearest Hive fleet descends to the planet, devours all the organic material (including the characters) but the hive mind remembers how effective the paricular genetic (character build) construct was and replicates it when it sends out its next wave of genestealer spores. (reward)

Use this method to make your very own Xenos related adventures! DAKBOOM WILLS IT!

Skeletor said:

You're right, never thought about it that way, **** sacred cows . It is possible, but players would have to accept the differences in roleplay and goals for the game, but after all, isn't it what we do with every game we play. But Dark Eldar playable, I also wonder why they didn't choose regular Eldar?It's true that Dark Eldars are pretty much in the piracy business though.

People have been calling for an Eldar rpg since the early days of the Forum- I would be surprised if FFG doesn't have one in the works. My only fear is that the Eldar wouldn't be portrayed as alien enough; a game where they are simply D&D -style 'demihumans' would suck…

Speaking of xenos, what I really want to see is an Ordo Xenos sourcebook for DH . There are a bunch of Calixis-specific xeno species mentioned in Radical's Handbook that have never been followed up on…

Adeptus-B said:

I second this! Ordo Malleus got an entire supplement for themselves while Ordo Hereticus got some goodies in the Blood of Martyrs. Ordo Xenos deserve some good stuff as well. Hopefully it will come in a future supplement though.

So… yeah…

Maybe you guys should look at it from a perspective other than the customer. Think like you own FFG, and that your actions determine the profit. Think of what your customer subset would be for a Tyranid based game. Think how much time would be spent on it, and how much you'll recoup. Think about whether a large enough subset of players would purchase the 50,000 copy first run, and then whether you can sell subsequent books based on that. Think of the balance between risk and reward based on such decisions. Try it with each Xenos. Try thinking of what kind of roleplaying game you could construct to capitalize on the xenos race's appeal.

Try that Roleplay. And that will probably answer the OP's request. Just…think like a game developer.

And here's a bit of fluff, I guess. As that game developer you would have already started Only War before making a Xenos Centric game. Think of why your character did that.

IdOfEntity said:

While I agree that an Eldar would be, well, boring (sorry Eldar fans, not trying to start a fight), I do not feel that Xenos are any less playable that any of the myriad aliens/mutants/fantasy creatures that have been PCs in Role Playing Games for decades. I posted my thoughts on a Tau Empire game in reply to this posts Rogue Trader branch. Note that I ame not a Tau fanboy, I just think that it would be the most workable xenos game.

I posted a thread on the RT forum earlier today basically wishlisting about an Eldar game. I really think it would work very well, and that, in essence, the Eldar paths could be used to make really interesting characters.

In short, I imagine each Eldar PC having some prior experience for a former path (very possibly a path which one would not want to play in a heroic RPG, such as a painter or a gardener, but something which add to character and gives a couple of interesting skills they wouldn't otherwise get), and then they follow their 'path' (path of the seer, warrior and wanderer are the most famour ones, but I would want to add bonesinger, some sort of skald/performer/priest type character etc). Then, after a few career ranks you would have the choice whether to change path, and switch over to something completely different, and so get a breadth of skills which normally wouldn't be available, or become an 'exarch', and become lost on that one path - you can never leave it, but will gain access to loads of interesting, powerful (and specialised) advancements.

Anyway, I think it would work, and I echo the sentiments that Eldar (or Tau, or Orks) are no more unfeasible to play than any fantasy species. Some groups may play Eldar as humans with pointy ears - but so what? If they enjoy that, so be it. Nearly every fantasy RPG I have played has seen dwarves portrayed as a caracature of northern English miners - this isn't really a problem, and though I know that Dwarves in Warhammer Fantasy have a lot more to them than that, it was still a lot of fun.

Also, I can imagine an Eldar game working very well as either an RT or a DH level game, the former as crew of an Eldar ship, scooting around having adventures, the latter working for a farseer, who tells them to go and recover lost artefacts, stop silly humans waking up daemons, that kind of thing.

But, all being said, I do really rather love Eldar…

All best,

David.

Hi,

I'd be very much in favour of a xenos player character book, hopefully compatible with some of the existing lines.

Cant help but think Farseers may be tricky as players though, what with knowing lots of stuff thats about to happen. Seems better suited to the mysterious npc role? Pathfinders, Mercenaries, Pirates and Outcasts may be more adaptable for story purposes. This thread made me think about the possibility of having both Tau and Eldar in one book. BC has two races (kinda), with 4 archetypes for each. Why not do similar for a xeno book?

Yeah I know its very unlikely….

I think its ridiculous to claim it'd be hard to play Eldar, while not claiming the same about Space Marines, I dont know what to say.

What experience do any of us have as a 7 foot tall mutant gene therapied brainwashed soldier.

I have never been an Elf in real life, how can I roleplay one in D&D? I've never been a woman in RL, how I could I play a member of the Adepta Sororitas?

Thats all stupid and bogus. The point of roleplaying is to play something you're not (In addition to playing whatever the eff you like). I think a lot of people are just using it as an excuse to be disingenous because they do not want to play Eldar.

I don't want to play the ridiculous mon-keighs of the Imperium either, but I don't a choice, if I want to RP in 40K do I?

Seeten said:

You could be a ridiculous mon-keigh of Chaos. Or an Ork, or a Kroot.

I think one of the best parts about roleplaying an Ork or a Kroot in a Rogue Trader game is the culture shock. Could make for some funny conversations.

"Oi, Kaptin, why'z dat git over dere not wearin' any armour? An' wot's dat screamin'?"

"She's a singer, Gubzag."

"Wot if somefing tries ta stab 'im? 'E's got lotsa skin showin'."

"She, Gubzag. She's a girl. As in, not a boy. Also, she has guards to protect her. She shows off skin so people will look at her."

"Lookin' fer somefing ta stab?"

"No. We like her singing. Unlike you Orks, we humans don't resort to violence for fun."

"Oi Kaptin, I wanna try dis singin' fing."

"Gubzag, please put your shirt back on…"

Double post, sorry.

Boss Gitsmasha said:

I will add on to this.

Upon hearing this …. sound, the Eldar Ranger whispers to his Rogue Trader companion "Tánya lam ve' atta Talli grég yérë," which elicits a hearty laugh from MalCovich.

Puzzled, the scribe asks the Rogue Trader "Sire, what did Vanimedlë say?"

"Vanimedlë said 'That sounds like Talli insects mating."

"I'm not familiar with Talli insects sire."

A smile crosses MalCovich's face, "They mate, by one eating the other."

"That doesn't sound very humorous sire," replies the scribe.

"Yes, and neither does this orcs singing."

Boss Gitsmasha said:

Awesome…

David B said:

I like this concept. Good job swaying me toward thinking an Eldar game could be good!

Adeptus-B said:

Agreed. Especially the ork not grasping the concept of gender. I hadn't considered how "alien" that would be to them.

Well, Orks are all Boyz. They have no girls because they reproduce asexually, via spores. So in addition to gender being an alien concept to them, an Ork would have a difficult time telling men from women because humie gits all look roughly the same anyway.