AluminiumWolf said:

Oh I don't know. This is (apparently) a US National Guardsman in Afghanistan with a <cough> '10.5" Adcor B.E.A.R upper on a M4 Carbine lower'. This is not official gear.

This is apparently 'Official Policy'

I don't think its possible to say whether the Imperial Guard allows for weapon customization. While the peaceful members of a regiment raised from an agri-world are not very likely to have much more than the standard kit, and more archaic looking troops like the Headhunters, Attilan regiments, and Praetorians are even less likely, there are many others.

Athonian regiments, coming from a industrial hive world with near constant corporate warfare would likely have many attachments, particularly those which help in close quarters.

Most warlike or tech-savvy regiments are likely to have some sort of improvements to their weapons, I would think that the cadians, who live and breath military life would have a great deal of fancified guns, and would probably carry camo mugs with rails as a fashion item. Necromundans, or ganger regiments from pretty much any other hive world are not going to have standard issue gear for long. It would be hard to imagine a regiment founded from Gunmetal City to not have vastly personalized weaponry.

All of the regiments above are offcial, so with the great open ended-ness of 40k its very likely that somewhere there is the most tacticooled regiment. There is even a fully power armored regiment in the 5th ed rulebook.

There really is never a rule of thumb for the guard, and with a couple of changes to the rules it would be pretty trivial to make customized weapons. If the gunsight rules were more like: A gun may have as many sights as can be reasonably fitted to it, however a gun may only make use of any one gunsight at a time. This keeps out the silliness of sight-stacking which would happen really quickly otherwise. Maybe making bipods and tripods more useful for basic weapons (are they even in only war?) Those are really the only changes I can think of, besides adding some more attachments.

The unit my players play in just took Exterminator Cartridges and Red Dot Sights as standard gear for their lasguns with Regiment Equipment points. Meaning the weapons have an underbarrel rail for the Aux GL or Exterminator and likely a top rail for any attached Sight system already. Really, if you want a fancy Lasgun, just do that. Then use the already-provided Weapon Customization rules. Simple, and you won't end up with tacticool abominations like that wall of photos just posted last page.

First world militaries are the equivalent of noble armies or stormtrooper regiments, while the vast majority of guard regiments are given the equivalent of an AK-47 with iron sights because it's reliable and allows them to have as large of a force as possible for the least amount of resources .

You do not see bolter regiments of guardsman because a whole clip of bolt gun ammo is almost as expensive as a lasgun. One thing that you learn in even the 1st world military is that every piece of kit you are equipped with was made by the lowest bidder.

Better equipped regiments exist, but are not the norm by far. Point is, your guardsman pc in the game is not another piece of fodder like your commrade. You have fate points, and as such the emperor has a plan for you… and maybe it involves a red dot sight that you used logistics to get, or maybe it's standard kit for your special flower squad

I've got a couple of buds in the Army and it doesn't seem like gun customization is all that common or even practical. It's mostly something done as a hobby or downtime. Sure men will sometimes go out of their way to buy their own grip or a non-standard scope but it's important to note that's on their own dime and if you go overboard people start to ask questions. Just like with the Guard the rifle they give you is something they may want back someday so it's frowned upon if you mess with it too much.

The problem, as most people are driving at, is the fluff of the Imperium itself. We're talking about a place who actually forgot a large chunk of science and technology and has been searching for clues and blueprints on how some of their tech works. Engineering is an actual religion i n this setting for pete's sake. Pair that with the average education of an Imperial citizen and you'll end up with a Guardsman who knows how to use and maintain their rifle but not enough to crack open the housing and start dicking around with the laser emitters or various circuitry. Pair that with a very strict Creed that says "If you don't follow the rules a man in a black jacket is going to shoot you in your face" and people are going to be rather aprehensive to live out their Call of Duty fantasy on their gun (TF2 Hats is a whole different bag).

That said, from what I've read with the weapon customization options presented in the beta, it seems like everything has to do with how the Guardsman adjusts various things on his rifle. So nothing really requires dramatic additions or breaking down the entire guts of the rifle, and that seems absolutely fine. Things like a scope or red-dot wouldn't be that groundbreaking, but might be more of a matter that the gun was never designed to receive such an upgrade (no power outlet for addons, for instance) so an appropriate Armorer check would be needed to jury-rig something together. Mainly my hard point is that if it's something that requires the actual shell of the rifle to come apart, such as creating the Bullpup variant of the Lasgun, it's likely something only a Forge Master or some other wise Techpriest would know how to do effectively.

But like with any game like this do what you want. You want your Guardsman to ride gingerbread ponies into battle I can't stop you.

WittyDroog said:

Well, 1: I don't think that needs to be an enormous problem. A lot of the art features people having augetic eyes and random tubes sticking out of their heads and heavily decorated uniforms and weird techno-gubbins all over, so I don't think having the guns the same would be an enormous problem.

2: I think it is worth making any needed adjustment to the fluff in order to keep the game relevant. I feel sorta the same about incorporating things like mobile phones and the internet in to the setting. On the one hand, it is easy to say that the masses in 40k don't have access to such things. On the other, ubiquitous telecommunications are so much a modern part of life it is worth reexamining the setting in order to find a way to make them work.

AluminiumWolf said:

1. That picture you posted is of an Inquisitor (who has nigh on infinite resources and can do whatever they damned well please!) and indeed most of the artwork that exists for 40k are of the special few that rise above the countless trillions of boring, mundane souls in the Imperium and beyond to some level of success and glory and survival and fame. Arguing that trooper Joe Bloggs should be able to tweak his lasgun's internal focal lense settings and add a red dot scope to it because the people that run the Imperium have bionics is a moot point.

2. Changing a setting to modernize it can be entirely catastrophic and only done by the IP holders. Look at how many classic theatre productions and pieces of literature have been updated for the 20th and 21st century and just been utter rubbish. Then ask yourself how many of those modernizations would have gotten the go ahead if the original author was still alive.
Games Workshop are the only ones who will authorize the publication of any material that includes 'modernization' as it would drastically alter the setting. And remember that absolutely anything printed with a GW and 40k logo somewhere in it is considered canon - each piece of 40k literature is written from certain characters perspectives and no character knows EVERYTHING about the setting.

Lots of people in 40k dress like that though:-

And particularly:-

(For that matter Chapter House (spit) make these things, which I think could be improved but give an idea of how this could look. Needs more Gothicness though.)

From what people have said it sounds like its already possible for people to customise the base weapon for their group which I think solves most of the customization thing for me (I don't like the idea of snowflake guardsmen but like the idea of snowflake regiments). Though I think that marksmen/snipers and so on should be able to have a somewhat more flexible approach.

The rest of the customization for me should be rather like how soldiers customize their weapons and equipment in the field, like the hillbilly armoured humvees in Iraq, like the full auto M1 carbines that were modified during WWII and Korea, like better sights that you steal, loot, buy or bribe to get or hell like the better boots that British soldiers had to buy in field in Iraq!

For me with the guard regiments should have uniform equipment within that regiment, individual specialists, officers and so on should have some lee way but for the majority of troops customization should come with experience, the longer your around and the more fighting you've seen the more divergent your gear would get.

If you take any real world, or video game, customization have certain points of adjustments

-Triggers (internal) : Lasguns have a switch which goes: 1 Safety, 2 Semi-auto, 3 Full-auto and some might have 3 round bursts

-Gas system (internal) : Non-existent in lasguns

-Barrel (internal): might be able to customize this as you could probably unscrew it and screw in something shorter or something longer for their needs

Magazine types: hellgun, hotshot and standard

Optics: this works

Underbarrel: GL, grips, lights and whatever else could go here

Stock: in BL novels it does say that there are different types of stocks: wire, extended, folded, nalwood, etc.

Side rail: Lasers, lights, hearbeat sensors and whatever does seem plausible

Muzzle: on lasguns there only is one option- flash hiders as the ammo would easily burn any supressors

BUT on the other hand:

some regiments may be outfitted with autoguns which probably ARE customisable and then it is plausible.

Also:

ALL soldiers know how to field strip their weapons , especially those who make fighting their profession like Cadians or DKoK. So they know how to take the weapon apart and put it back together and therefore know slightly how it works.

Stormchasers said:

Actually no - guardsmen are expected to maintain their gear, but that is a far cry from knowing the intricate details of how it works. The vast majority of those imperial citizens that deal with technology only know how to keep devices operation and in their current state, not the science behind how they work as that is part of the Adeptus Mechanicus' monopoly on technology. Every organization within the Imperium will send some of its number to train on Mars or another forgeworld and that is why we see techmarines, enginseers and explorators - all tech specialists with proper training from the Ad Mech.

The vast majority of the Imperial Guard are fresh recruits and a large number of those will die off in their first campaign. Of those that are left some will begin to get a feel for their equipment, learning how to tweak its settings with minimal external changes, thus keeping the munitorium off their backs and commissars from executing them. It'd be a true veteran trooper who knows how to field strip his weapon in a matter of moments, how to swap out internal components for custom parts, or properly fit customs sights or scopes. If every trooper in the guard started modifying their gear then the supply chains would utterly fall apart and the commissars would have a field day executing constantly!

Kasatka said:

I'm not sure what people want that's not already there. If we take the standard lasgun and take a look at what you can put on it compared to modern day rifle customisation:

Longer/Shorter barrel: Long-las/Lascarbine should cover it.

Optics/sights: Already more than you can shake a stick at.

Underbarrel attachments: Grenade launchers, exterminators, bayonets, bipods… heck, throw in combi-weapons from Dark Heresy for good measure. If you want specialised front grips, the upgrade "custom grip" does just this.

Folding stock: While this is nice to have when lugging a weapon around or trying to conceal it, you'd be a fool to go into combat with the stock folded. No rules are needed here except possibly a negative modifier for firing with the stock folded, If you want a fixed customised stock… there's an upgrade for that too.

Custom Trigger: "Trigger adjustment"

Tuned action/gas system: "Fluid Action"

and so on…

I'm not sure what kind of tacticool option you'd want that isn't already covered.

MILLANDSON said:

Yes, the Iran-Iraq war was exactly just that and not very long ago. Iraq had better miliary equipment mostly from the USA, USSR and French (and Iran had the same suppliers, but less of them) but Iran had a much larger population. So, the Iranian's basically recruited a ton of young men between the ages of 12 and 60 into the Basij Militias and sent them in with mere weeks of military training, religious indoctrination, an AK47 and a couple of grendes. Often without air, artillery or armour support and yes, they died in statistics as bad or worse than some of the battles of WW1 going up against dug in tanks, missiles, chemical weapon attacks and other fortifications.

That was their job, to fight and die for god and country. To the point of being human land mine removers for more specialist mainline units or kids strapping on a bomb vest and attacking armoured vehicles. Now politics aside and not to trivialise the actual bravery or horrendous bloodshed, that same level of 'heart' is what the Imperial Guard is and in many contemporary armies.

Yes- seconded, we need rails as an option

the biggest issue i see with the weapon modifications/accessories is that the downsides do not make sense. Why is adding a vertical grip on my weapon, halving my range, and making it harder to aim? when in real life that is the exact point of a vertical grip?

MKX said:

MKX said:

Great summary there. And basically what I've said before, there isn't a lot to do internally unless you want to try to turn your lasgun into a makeshift bomb by messing with the cicuitry. The only real thing we need is rails and I think any sensible and flexible GM could add those as I'm about to do with my party.

P.S. love your signature

I agree with this guy. Work hard on this. Its worth it because you want it in your game. And it makes a lot of sence any way. Its only natural for any soldier to want to improve thier survivability on the battle feild. If I could find a way to poly gum a bolter under my flash light or give it a bit more kick I know I would.

Unknown said:

lostguardguy said:

I agree with this guy. Work hard on this. Its worth it because you want it in your game. And it makes a lot of sence any way. Its only natural for any soldier to want to improve thier survivability on the battle feild. If I could find a way to poly gum a bolter under my flash light or give it a bit more kick I know I would.

This is how I was refering too. Sorry a million apoligies brand new here