GouHadou said:

d00d I was blitzed out on FATIGUE and I had to work. I missed the belt fight. I MISSED THE FRIGGIN' BELT FIGHT.

WOWEEE.

That was a strange thread to read.

Okay. Here's the thing.

1. Masterom2000 posted a thread to see how many folks felt bad about the way this tournament was being run, with the hope that it might generate some sort of FFG attention.
2. A few folks responded according Masterom's intent.
3. Hatman + Arch responded to point out that it won't get FFG's attention (and that Hatman had tried this already). They should have done so in a much nicer, considerate way. I suspect that part of the reason Hatman was so snarky about it is that he still holds a bit of resentment over the fact that his earlier complaints about the tournament's format were largely ignored. Still, it doesn't excuse him. We should be aiming to be more polite than we have been.
4. Flame war. Sad.

We need to recognize what these forums are good for, and allow them to be used in that way. Masterom probably should have phrased his original post differently, but the rest of us should have helped him turn this thread into something productive, rather than just sniping at him for "complaining" or "whining."

These forums are _excellent_ at collecting information from a variety of sources. We shouldn't limit information that's collected.

Masterom should have said:

"I'm kinda upset about the way this tournament format was run. Here's why:

1. . If you are also upset about this tournament's format/setup, please post, and explain why; be as specific as possible. If you really

After you get a lot of results, you point FFG to the thread with a friendly email, and let them know you have information to help them understand some of their players. Point out that it might be useful in planning future events.

As I said, many of us (okay, not me; this is the first time I've read the thread) could have easily redirected the thread to such a purpose, without bashing on the original poster. To be fair, Masterom could have been much more calm and friendly in his subsequent responses as well. There is something to Arch's comment about specifically asking for no flames on the internet; you're specifically asking to be disappointed. The best way to avoid flames is to pretend they don't exist, sidestep them whenever possible, and call the mods when necessary.

------------------------------

Now to weigh in on the topic...

I wasn't happy with the format, primarily due to one of the points Antigoth listed: The promo will likely either be crap not worth the travel, or extremely powerful (meta-setting) and way too hard to obtain (ala BRT, TYPFG, LOLidays, arguably SoC, etc.).

I don't like any tournament that requires going to the midwest, because I have an irrational bias against it, and because it's far away from me. But generally I dislike big tournaments that require travel, because I can't afford to travel very much. I make it to two events away from home (SoCal) each year: GDC in San Francisco, and holidays in my home town of New Orleans. That much travel is a luxury not many people have, and as it is, I worry about my finances. I also know that the economy's getting worse and fewer people will be able to afford to travel in the next three years. For that matter, fewer people will be able to afford to play UFS--all the more reason for us to make it possible for those who do spend the money on the game (at home) to feel like they are getting all the game has to offer.

I like the regionals, and I was really sorry that homework and a close friend's birthday party kept me from making Desert Wars. I also like the store and city championships. I think they're great ideas.

I'm even okay with Worlds, since big tournaments are a blast, and it only happens once a year, at a con that would attract many players anyway. Nationals is a similar format. It's just sad that the west coast doesn't have as many sizeable gaming cons as it once did. Perhaps someone could investigate having a Nationals at PAX one year?

Heck, I kinda even dig con-exclusive promos, like that Dragon in MtG that only went out at DragonCon one year. It wasn't gamebreaking or meta-setting, but it didn't suck either. It was cool.

I think the reason this tournament format bugs me is that, unlike the con-based Worlds and Nationals, players have no incentive except UFS to make the trip. And most players (even most players with the patches) can't justify that kind of trip (especially in spring, as opposed to summer) for just a single game. We love UFS. But asking players to love UFS _that_ much strikes me as somewhat unrealistic, and makes me a bit resentful. I think it struck me as an unprofessional move on STG's part (and possibly FFG's, though, as Antigoth said, there is merit to not pulling a last-minute switch). Considering that STG was full of unprofessional moves, it was one more thing that made me irritated with the company.

Now, I do see _one_ way this could go well. It has two requirements. 1) The promo in question would have to skate the line between trash and meta-changer. It would have to be simply good (like Heel Snipe, or maybe slightly less powerful). This is much harder to do in UFS than it is in Magic. The lack of vanilla in UFS and the fast pace means that a card has to work much harder to justify itself in a deck, and when it does, it's probably over the line. 2) The card would have to have some sort of custom art, or a blank art box, like that first promo set of Penny Arcade. That way everyone who goes is getting something special, but not game-breaking special.

The one thing I _REALLY_ don't get is: what the heck was STG's/FFG's thinking behind keeping the promo a secret? It seems to me that if the promo is cool, they could only get a larger appeal, and more folks showing, by letting us know what to expect. If the promo sucks, then fewer people will leave disappointed, feeling like they wasted hundreds of dollars and a full weekend on the trip. I think FFG could only benefit from more transparency, where licensing or copyright issues don't get in the way.

ARMed_PIrate said:

As I've pointed out before, when I last made these complaints (and that ignores the fact that when this came out I distinctly remember saying something akin to "Thanks for boning those who can't travel very far, again. I'm starting to think this is Standard Operating Proceedure at STG), this is the answer I received, in about the same exact harsh tone (Exception the few who've actually been polite in the thread with one other exception from that, but hey who's counting right?) with one less insult (which was edited anyway). First two posts weren't bad, but it was more of a self-fulfilling prophecy as those were skirting the line between flame and not-flame. That, and two topics had been attempted to be jacked on the same exact subject. It wasn't so much resentment ('cause hey, I complain about 90% of Organized Play efforts because I feel like I'm specfically excluded, so yeah I'm bound to be disappointed.) as it was being tired of beating the same dead horse over three topics (counting this one).

I sure do love my brackets.

Let me reiterate, however, the following : If you have ANY problem with Organized Play, you have to take it up with Paul Bromen in a brief, explicative and polite manner. His e-mail's been peppered around this thread and others, so it shouldn't be that hard to find. At the worst, use the FFG Customer Support e-mail (which is freely available on the website itself) which should, normally, pass it on to Paul so that he can read your concerns. Is it too late for this one? Yep. Is it too late for a possible next one? Probably not.

this whole thing is just a big waste of my time, to be completely honest it is bull crape, so thank you guys for turning my life into a heaping pile of monkey crape

hawkman2009 said:

you're welcome? sorry to hear a card game's special tournament can affect your life in such a manner.

Ok, here's the deal.

I see why people are angry and disheartened. One reason for that is because the information regarding the UFS Invitational was not given out beforehand during the start of the Path of the Master Event. We were told that the event followed the last PotM event and that we get exclusive promos for bringing the patches. 2 months isn't much time to plan given that we all work and have things going on around us that may affect our availability to enter this event.

I am one of those players who could only attend 2 major events per year. I originally chose Nationals and Worlds. I have plenty of time to prepare for Worlds and Nationals seems not to far away, nonetheless, the UFS Invit that's even closer.

It's a shock/surprise for all of us. I personally will do what I can to make it to this event and cancel all plans for Nationals. I've come to this decision after being hinted by an FFG insider of how much more exciting this event will be compared to Nationals.

This is what I'd like for all those who're in the same boat as I (can only choose 2 events or 1), you were gonna go to a large UFS event anyway.. why not just cancel 1 for the other? The pros to go to this event is that FFG has full control over the premises thus more $$ toward services to us. I feel that this event will be less costly for me to attend in comparison to Nationals which is in a convention during a time which most or all the nearby hotel/inns will be booked up. This event is more player to company than any other UFS premier events this year and may be the only one. We'll get to visit the company and not deal with overcrowding and long lines.

I was disheartened and somewhat upset but now I've made up my mind with a little help. I hope this helps you decide as well.

We all knew it would be at FFG HQ though we didn't know the date so regardless of when we'd all have to take the trip.

We all knew the patches were needed to redeem exclusive promos and that it would be a one time deal.

We're all given the same opportunity and information.. it would've been best with advance notice but things are now set in stone so we all must do what we can with what we've got.

If I go and am able to redeem more than 13 patches, then I'd gladly help anyone else out there who'd trust me with their patches and redeem it for them. I'll find out whether or not I'll be making the event after 2 weeks.

GraveLord said:

Shouldn't have said that because seriously... ew. Last year, our nationals were barely supported by FFG, and if the US Nats are slated to be far less awesome than the PotM event, I can't even imagine what the Canadian Nationals will be like.

Also, yes I quoted you because that's arguably the most important part of your post.

Can't compare this year's UFS Nationals to last year since last year's happened during company transition. Now that the company and the game is fully synched I'm sure this year's National will be great. Just not as great as the Invitational is to be.

The Canadian Nationals isn't something for me.. it's much farther for me.

Homme Chapeau said:

At least you guy's did have ledezma there because even for US Nats the support wasn't that great as compared 2007.

Scubadude said:

IIRC it was a last minute decision, because Ledezma was not even confirmed to be at the event until 3 days prior to the actual event (which, honestly, was awesome in the sense that Ledezma is awesome, but the fact that it wasn't even sure we'd have a FFG representative at the event kind of speaks for itself). I can understand the Canadian Nationals having less involvment from FFG than the US ones somewhat, since they've been ran without many incidents to speak of (well, on a personal note, there was this backpack incident but that was not the fault of the organizers). If the US ones will be less exciting (according to unnamed sources, but due to the current social climate I'm not even gonna ask who said this and take this at face value), I don't even want to know how exciting the Canadian Nationals this year will be.

And if people are foregoing the Nats for the PotM event, imagine how harsh it will be for you guys.

Now, if that was my only concern as far as Organized Play in general, I'd be happier than this, but it isn't, and until a certain thing is resolved for certain Canadian playerbases, pessimism will abound, as not even Paul Bromen fixed that.

why don't all the east cost guys come over to england for our event . We promise tea and scone's for everyone

Tuesday said:

As soon as teleport devices are invented you bet !! But you guys do get your own POTM so at least its not just one in the US.

You don't believe in ice in your tea. I know - the waiters in the restaurants always looked at us like we were crazy. And then they only gave us three ice cubes ;_;

But hot tea and scones are awesome. I miss England. Someday, I'd like to get back over and maybe play you guys =(

oh yer can we moan how ours is so far away, i mean people will have to travel almost 3 hours in some directions (omg lol) though in fairness i do beleive we are europe's so anybody in russia could have a nice journey

MegaGeese said:

Depending on how this year wraps up... I'd love to spend part of 2010 spending a few weeks treking across the UK and Europe playing CCGs along the way. <couch hopping to cut down on costs if at all possible>