I scoured the rulebook, and could not come up with a satisfactory answer to this question-

If a unit (like a Kommandogruppe) has a medic and mechanic, does the whole unit have to take the "special action" to preform the medic or repair task? In short, if I want to repair something with my mechanic, does every other model have to effectively sacrifice their action to do so, or can they take another non-movement action (like attack, or medic, etc)?

popg0estheworld said:

Unit's always take actions as a unit. So if you use your mechanic to make a repair, that costs your whole unit an action.

felkor said:

I don't quite agree though. Each of your models should be able to do it's own thing (i.e. Medics heal, Mechanic Repair and heavy machine gunner fire). Kinda like how you get to split fire with your walker to 2 different targets

I don't believe that's how the game works.

It would make the Luther pretty awesome though, if it could repair with its one weapon while firing with the rest…

We've been playing it that you have 3 choices with actions…

• Move Action
• Attack Action
• Special Actions

So, we've been allowing the medic and mechanic to both act on a special action, but no firing or moving. Basically the other member(s) of the squad are handing out tools, bandages and morphine, while standing guard and keeping an eye out for enemy movements. I'm very confident this is how it should be played.

Interesting. Can you provide a rules reference?

I'd actually rather play the game the way you say, and perhaps I'm only playing it differently because I'm used to Dust Tactics which plays differently. But I'd love to know what you use in the rulebook to arrive at that conclusion.

felkor said:

Page 33 which lists Actions (Move & Attack), Double Actions (Sustained Attack & March Move) then this…

"SPECIAL ACTIONS

Due to their weaponry or special abilities, some units have special actions they can take. Examples of special actions include Reload actions to reload certain heavy weapons and Repair actions to fix damage to a vehicle. See the Spec Ops chapter starting on page 52 for more about special actions."

Which of course made me look on page 55 for the actions, and I'm now very confident I've been playing it wrong, but not sure I'm going to change, as I'm pretty sure our player-base will house-rule this one the way I described earlier. I'll put it to a vote for them, but Rules as Written, I'm wrong.

RaW it can only be one Special Action the whole unit assists in, so either Heal, Repair, Reload, or any other Special Action. Here's proof:

Page 55, relevant portion of Mechanic Special Ability Rule…

"A unit with one or more mechanics may take a special Repair action to attempt field maintenance on a damaged vehicle."

Page 55, relevant portion of Medic Special Ability Rule…

"A unit with one or more medics may take a special Heal action to attempt medical treatment on a target Soldier unit."

It actually makes sense, as it's rather hard to fire you LMG when your medic asks you to stick your trigger finger in your buddy's bullet hole while he gets his sewing supplies.

* Edit to add - I do think it'd be more elegant to allow all Special Actions a unit can do be exercised as one Special Action, but I'll try and get my group to switch to RaW, as it'd suck getting used to something I couldn't use when at a Con or out of town tourney.

Thanks for looking into it.

I feel that generally the medic/mechanic ability is too weak in this game - with only 1/3 chance of actually repairing health back to the unit, it can feel like a waste of an action to try. It would have felt more worth if it my medic and mechanic could attempt to do their thing at the same time, so at least I had an approx. 50/50 chance of healing *someone's* damage. Oh well, thanks for looking it up - I agree, the way you play sounds like a decent house rule.

felkor said:

Yeah, I wish I were wrong and could play it like I initially read it. I agree, it's very risky to try to heal/repair as it is now. Another house rule option would be to roll as many dice as the unit you are trying to heal/repair has wounds. That might make it more viable. I once missed 4 heal actions in a row, where I'd have been much better off inflicting hits on my enemy.

At least it sounds like if I attach Rosie to a Command Squad, I can attempt to repair with both Rosie and the squad's mechanic, and with Rosie's Tank Head ability, you now have an almost 80% chance of repairing damage (and ~20% chance of repairing 2 units of damage.)

felkor said:

Yeah, now if they'll just make the nurse from the comic…

Oh, and give Axis & SSU similar heroes, lol.

But yeah, Rosie's a favorite of mine when I go Walker heavy Allies list.

Wouldn't the bit about "a squad with one or more mechanics can make a special repair action" indicate that even with a character with mechanic, you'd only be making one special repair action?

Just curious, as I've been out of the loop for a bit . . .

Craig in NH said:

I don't think so, as a unit making a ranged Attack action gets to shoot with all their soldiers who have ranged weapons. This I'm pretty sure means Rosie and the other Mechanic in a unit with one old roll the repair roll. I'd say they can split-fire as well, rolling on two different Walkers if in range and LoS.

This raises another question then - if a Loth does a "Self Repair" action, does it do it twice, because it has 2 claws with the self-repair special ability?

felkor said:

No, because the second claw gives it the Mechanic ability (and because it's still only one model).

Not to go all English teachery on ya'll . . . but with a couple caps and bolds for emphasis . . .

"A UNIT with ONE OR MORE mechanics may take A special Repair action to attempt field maintenance on A damaged vehicle."

In the Attack Actions section on p40, there's 3 paragraphs outlining that each model in each unit fires any/all weapons carried that are viable, in each Attack Action.

It would have to be sloppy rules writing if the actual intent was for each mechanic to be able to make their own special Repair action, because as written (and with no circumstantial evidence to indicate anything to the contrary), the rule states that a unit may make an action to repair a vehicle . . .

Again, though, I've no dog in this fight. No one local has Rosie that I've seen, and I haven't been able to play in awhile . . . this is more of an intellectual exercise for me right about now . . .

Many times in my multiple decades of gaming I've been in this exact position, arguing for the clear grammatical meaning of a rule . . . and then been errata'ed or faq'ed as wrong . . . so it's not really a given that the actual grammar of a rule should be used as a guideline for the intent of the rule . . . but again, the English Teacher in me gets its back all bristly whenever that happens . . .

I used to teach English as a second language to foreign nationals in Hawaii as a side gig back in the day while I was getting my degree. I used to feel exactly the same way, but as you said, and I'm sure you know, many a publisher of games doesn't have English Teachers as rules writers, and more than a few have terrible editors. I tend to try more to read between the lines now and go with what I speculate was their intent. However, Craig, your argument is sound. I just don't see any reason, Rules as Written, to ever attempt a repair or heal action unless the tank-head rule is in effect or the unit attempting the special action literally has nothing else they can do. The odds of reward vs risk just dictate to not even bother, IMO.

With rules as written, I would say a unit with 2 mechanics could take one special action to repair one vehicle. However, nothing there is to say that the 2 mechanics could not work together to repair the vehicle, just like multiple miniatures firing are still taking one firing attack, 2 mechanics repairing one vehicle are taking one repair action. I would still roll for both mechanics, and take off 2 damage tokens. To me the rules as written would support that, even if it doesn't support repairing 2 different vehicles with the same action.

Ooh, just to clarify, don't get me wrong, I think you SHOULD be able to try to repair multiple things, and/or heal and repair with one 'special action'. I think those command squads would be MUCH cooler and more versatile if that is/were the case. And I've seen far worse written rules faq'ed in a far more drastic manner, so no telling, in the end.

Unfortunately, I don't think the Mechanic Special Ability supports multiple mechanics making multiple roles, as, on page 55, it says (in addition to the line already quoted above),

. . . unit with one or more mechanics may make a repair action . . . "The player removes one effect from the Vehicle Damage Table that is affecting the target vehicle. In addition, roll a combat die. On a 'hit' the target vehicle unit removes one point of damage."

But you know what . . . I almost always agree with both you guys, and you've always struck me as stand-up, smart, calm guys . . . so play however you've been playing, as long as its fun, and I'm sure the universe will survive . . . I think it just might be time for my next dose of pain meds . . .

Anyone know of a good medic? I'm seriously hoping he can roll a <hit>, too . . .