The Heavy Gunner can begin with a choice of weapons; Common Craftsmanship Missile Launcher with 5 Frag Missiles OR Common Craftsmanship Heavy Bolter, but it does not having the Bolt weapon Training. The Starting Weapon training Talents could be Las, Bolt OR Launcher, Low-Tech, Heavy.
Heavy Gunner
Braddoc said:
The Heavy Gunner can begin with a choice of weapons; Common Craftsmanship Missile Launcher with 5 Frag Missiles OR Common Craftsmanship Heavy Bolter, but it does not having the Bolt weapon Training. The Starting Weapon training Talents could be Las, Bolt OR Launcher, Low-Tech, Heavy.
This has occurred within the rules before. Within Rogue Trader the Missionary could choose a flamer as their starting weapon, but did not begin with the talent to us it. It was available for purchase at rank 1 though.
I still need to read through my copy of Only War , been postponed for me due to slacking on other projects. Must catch up on necessary work.
-=Brother Praetus=-
Weapon Training Heavy is for all Heavy Weapons…
Yes, Heavy is the heavy weapon equivalent of your other Weapon Training; so a Heavy Gummer would be able to use Heavy Las and heavy Launcher from the get-go, but not the heavy bolter.
Ehr, I don't think so…I think it simply prevents you from buying all weapon talents
Santiago said:
Ehr, I don't think so…I think it simply prevents you from buying all weapon talents
Page 108
The character can only use weapons with Class: Heavy
without suffering the –20 penalty if he has both Weapon
Training in the appropriate group and Weapon Training (Heavy).
So that Heavy Gunner can use that missile launcher, a lascannon, but not a heavy bolter without having both the bolt and heavy weapon training
If I am reading the advancement system correctly, the Heavy Gunner should be able to purchase Weapon Training (Bolt) with 200 xp. Weapon Training talents are all tier 1, as well as being both Finesse and General aptitudes. As all characters get General , and the Heavy Gunner has an aptitude for Ballistic Skill ( Finesse ) that's two aptitudes.
Remember, it is not always necessary for a character to begin with full proficiency in each piece of equipment they can choose starting off. A little investment isn't adds diversity.
-=Brother Praetus=-
For the sake of the Beta-test, I say it's just foolish and confusing (especially to new players) for characters not to be able to use the equipment they start with. Sure, you can make up all kinds of justifcations for it, but in the end it's just poor rules writing. Much easier and better to just change the starting Talents to Weapon Training (las, bolter or launcher, low-tech, heavy). Simple fix.
LuciusT said:
For the sake of the Beta-test, I say it's just foolish and confusing (especially to new players) for characters not to be able to use the equipment they start with. Sure, you can make up all kinds of justifcations for it, but in the end it's just poor rules writing. Much easier and better to just change the starting Talents to Weapon Training (las, bolter or launcher, low-tech, heavy). Simple fix.
That would be part of why they're doing these playtests for the feedback, Lucius. Easier, sure, not necessarily "better". A good GM teaches the system as well as provides an entertaining time to their players. As the heavy bolter is a "choose" piece of equipment, it's not one they necessarily start with.
As we're all helping to work out the bugs, if your idea works for you and others, present it. I think I will stick with it as it stands in the RAW for now, and see how my players handle it.
-=Brother Praetus=-
Brother Praetus said:
That would be part of why they're doing these playtests for the feedback, Lucius. Easier, sure, not necessarily "better". A good GM teaches the system as well as provides an entertaining time to their players. As the heavy bolter is a "choose" piece of equipment, it's not one they necessarily start with.
As we're all helping to work out the bugs, if your idea works for you and others, present it. I think I will stick with it as it stands in the RAW for now, and see how my players handle it.
-=Brother Praetus=-
A) I thought I just did.
B) I'm not sure "stick with the RAW" is a good attitude when we're supposed to be critically examining the rules.
Or make their Talent choice: Launcher or Bolt
LuciusT said:
Brother Praetus said:
That would be part of why they're doing these playtests for the feedback, Lucius. Easier, sure, not necessarily "better". A good GM teaches the system as well as provides an entertaining time to their players. As the heavy bolter is a "choose" piece of equipment, it's not one they necessarily start with.
As we're all helping to work out the bugs, if your idea works for you and others, present it. I think I will stick with it as it stands in the RAW for now, and see how my players handle it.
-=Brother Praetus=-
There are certainly arguments in favour of having starting equipment that the character might not be trained in, but I always feel that the rules you start with should reflect the weapons you can use and vice versa. I don't like how the Apostate in Black Crusade can start with a Power Blade yet can't start with training in Power Weapons. It never sat right with me.
The same applies here - a heavy gunner with a heavy bolter… and no training to use it. What???
BYE
I agree with changing the starting talent choice.
Also, from a fluff point, I'd say that if you where assigned a weapon, it's because you can use it better than those 9 other guys in the squad. If you can't use it any better, the IG has no reason to assign you a very expensive weapon whose value is greater than that of the entire squad + equipment.