The prisoner of dol guldur?

By Captain Poe, in Rules questions & answers

I have a question about the dol guldur quest. When your hero becomes a prisoner, what is the definition of "Used"? I assume you cannot use any application of the character (cannot use their special ability, cannot trigger abilities based off of this character being in play (elrohir and his brother), and cannot play 0 cost cards off of them).

If this is the case, why not just say "remove that hero from play", and then "Return that hero to play"? It makes me think that there is some sort of functionality that i'm missing here… or maybe the designers just wanted to do something different.

Final question, do they keep their 1 resource that they collect during setup?

Captain Poe said:

I have a question about the dol guldur quest. When your hero becomes a prisoner, what is the definition of "Used"? I assume you cannot use any application of the character (cannot use their special ability, cannot trigger abilities based off of this character being in play (elrohir and his brother), and cannot play 0 cost cards off of them).

If this is the case, why not just say "remove that hero from play", and then "Return that hero to play"? It makes me think that there is some sort of functionality that i'm missing here… or maybe the designers just wanted to do something different.

Final question, do they keep their 1 resource that they collect during setup?

Firstly, you don't collect resources during set up. That happens in the resource phase of the first turn, by which time the prisoner has been determined.

In general, I think the reason the loose and ill-defined term "used" is on this quest card is because the designers were not templating cards very precisely in the core set - there are other examples too. This has tightened up somewhat in the current cycle. The phrasing you suggest would have been better, I think ("remove from the game").

Another related question is whether you can place a Caught in a Web on the prisoner.

jjeagle said:

Firstly, you don't collect resources during set up. That happens in the resource phase of the first turn, by which time the prisoner has been determined.

Thats right. For some reason I had been giving my heroes their +1 resource when I draw the starting hand, which is not right.

I would also like to know about caught in the web. Its not technically using the hero.

I think the point is that "technically using the hero" doesn't really mean anything, because "using" is not defined properly as a rules term. I feel myself that the spirit/intended meaning of the term is, as you say, "remove from the game", but making rulings on the basis of (perceived) designer intent is not good.

jjeagle said:

I think the point is that "technically using the hero" doesn't really mean anything, because "using" is not defined properly as a rules term. I feel myself that the spirit/intended meaning of the term is, as you say, "remove from the game", but making rulings on the basis of (perceived) designer intent is not good.

What do you do in that case? err on the side of caution?

Personally I reinterpret the quest card to read "remove from the game", but as far as I am aware this is not an official ruling and I wouldn't expect anyone else to follow it.

This interpretation would have some other implications, for instance if the hero was "removed from the game" then I don't think you could remove the Web with Miner of the Iron Hills, whereas this (probably) wouldn't breach the "cannot be used" clause.